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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #94 - Gold vs silver, relative rarity  (Read 6370 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:32:59 pm »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

Buyers of investment-grade coins are swooping back into the market. The coins selling most vigorously are the gold, and NCS conserved silver. I believe silver has the most growth potential, due to the lower prices and more people who can afford them. Gold, however, is very often preferred by the wealthy people who are least affected by economic downturns. I expect the buying decision between gold or silver to be a difficult one.

It's hard to stick with silver and all its merits when you see the money going into gold more aggressively. Diversification is a good strategy for handling this, and remember, rarity and relative rarity are what you are looking for. Popularity is your guide, but rarity is your choice. Choose the rarest coins within the most popular sets. That's relative rarity, and it is where the profits will be concentrated.

Relative rarity is especially important in gold, where almost all coins have much lower mintages than their silver counterparts.

My choices

Focus your purchases on rarity together with popularity during this weak market.

* Coins in a 70 grade
* Dragon and phoenix (marriage theme symbolism)
* Peacocks (marriage theme symbolism)
* Pandas, especially silver, the rarer the better
* Normal sized expo pandas, especially gold accented silver ones, and silver Munich expo medals
* 1979 year of the child, and possibly other child-themed coins like the 1989 children's fund panda
* 1990 goldfish medals
* God of longevity 3 tael silver medals
* Almost all medals are underpriced - buy the rarest, most popular ones first

Remember, there are several kinds of rarity, in order of importance:

* Mintage rarity
* Grade rarity
* Relative rarity within a series ("key" coins)
* Variety rarity/popularity (you have to have popularity too)
« Last Edit: 2011 Oct 06, 12:24:54 am by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:33:17 pm »

It's gold baby!

Or it has been at least. There have been a lot of gold coins trading hands recently.

With the weakness in the precious metals markets continuing, we are seeing some nice consolidation in coins. Prices are not dropping terribly, and the best of breed coins are continuing on in a position of strength. So to repeat from the last list, you can either buy cheap now on the low end or buy the best you can afford on the high end (or both!).

Check out the nice sized 64 coin sold list!
« Last Edit: 2011 Oct 05, 09:56:41 pm by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:12 pm »

Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Oct 05, 09:50:49 pm by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:26 pm »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:33 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #93 article

Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt RatioAg oz priceAu oz price
1980 6 g copper olympic archery NGC PF 69 CA$1000auctionthou32.90.60
1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC$306.5auction5.8010.10.18
1984 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$298Buy-It-Now1.819.820.18
1986 1/10 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$262.89auction1.608.660.16
1986 1/20 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$133.61auction1.624.400.08
1987 1 oz gold New Orleans expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$2625auction1.5986.51.59
1987 1 oz gold New Orleans expo panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$2750Buy-It-Now1.6790.61.67
1987 27 g silver proof panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC$613auction23.220.20.37
1987 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$568.88auction21.518.70.34
1987 3.3 oz silver god of longevity clear claw NGC PF 69 UC$1800offer17.959.31.09
1987 5 oz silver proof panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC$713auction4.7023.50.43
1987 8 g gold lunar rabbit NGC PF 69 UC$2026auction4.8066.71.23
1987 P gold proof panda 5 coin set NGC PF 68-69 UC$3250auction1.04107.1.98
1987 Y 1/10 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$273.89auction1.669.020.16
1988 8 g gold WWF golden haired monkey NGC PF 69 UC$850auction2.0128.00.51
1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC$519offer17.117.10.31
1990 1 oz silver panda large date NCS NGC MS 69$143.5auction4.724.720.08
1990 2 g silver dragon & phoenix NCS NGC PF 69 UC$250auction128.8.230.15
1990 8 g gold lunar horse NGC PF 69 UC$1346auction3.1844.30.82
1990 P 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$475.01auction2.8915.60.28
1993 P 1 oz silver proof panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC$451auction14.814.80.27
1994 1 oz gold lunar dog NGC PF 69 UC$5801auction3.53191.3.53
1994 1 oz gold panda large date NGC MS 69$2518.18auction1.5382.91.53
1994 gold proof unicorn 3 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$2024.99auction3.0866.71.23
1995 1/2 oz silver panda large date NGC MS 69$140.5auction9.264.630.08
1995 1/2 oz silver panda large date PCGS MS 69$175Buy-It-Now11.55.760.10
1995 1/20 oz gold panda small date NCS NGC MS 69$262.77auction3.208.660.16
1996 1 oz gold lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC$20211auction12.3666.12.3
1997 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$114.51auction3.773.770.06
1997 1 oz silver unicorn NCS NGC MS 69$154.5auction5.095.090.09
1997 1 oz silver unicorn NGC MS 69$135auction4.444.440.08
1997 1 oz silver visit China panda NGC MS 69$132.5auction4.364.360.08
1997 1/10 oz gold panda large date NGC MS 69$439Buy-It-Now2.6714.40.26
1997 1/10 oz gold panda small date NCS NGC MS 69$278.69auction1.699.180.16
1997 1/10 oz gold proof unicorn PCGS PR 69 DCAM$1500auction0.9149.40.91
1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$75offer4.942.470.04
1997 5 g silver WWF panda NGC PF 69 UC$123.5auction25.34.070.07
1997 P 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$421.99auction13.913.90.25
1998 1 oz gold panda small date NGC MS 69$3800auction2.31125.2.31
1998 1 oz silver colored proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$181.49auction5.985.980.11
1998 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$214.51auction7.077.070.13
1998 1/2 oz silver colored proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$116.17auction7.653.820.07
1999 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NCS NGC MS 69$277.82auction9.159.150.16
1999 1 oz silver panda large date plain 1 NGC MS 69$451auction14.814.80.27
1999 1/20 oz gold panda large date plain 1 NGC MS 69$525auction6.3917.30.31
2000 1 oz gold panda mirror PCGS MS 69$8299.99Buy-It-Now5.05273.5.05
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NCS NGC MS 69$471.66auction15.515.50.28
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$500auction16.416.40.30
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$498Buy-It-Now16.416.40.30
2001 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$124.51auction4.104.100.07
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$125.95auction4.154.150.07
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$152.5auction5.025.020.09
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$500offer16.416.40.30
2004 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$204.49auction6.736.730.12
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$360offer11.811.80.21
2005 1 oz silver Shanghai bank panda PCGS MS 69$250Buy-It-Now8.238.230.15
2005 1/2 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70$1794.99Buy-It-Now2.1859.11.09
2006 1 oz silver fan lunar dog NGC MS 69$202.5auction6.676.670.12
2006 1 oz silver Jinan bank panda NGC MS 69$545auction17.917.90.33
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$500offer16.416.40.30
2006 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70$599auction19.719.70.36
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$355auction11.711.70.21
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary proof panda 1991 NGC PF 70 UC$154.49auction20.35.090.09
2010 5 oz silver proof panda 3 coin set NGC PF 70 UC$2295Buy-It-Now5.0475.61.39
Total 64 coins:$78662.48259247.9
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:38 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:47 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:51 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:35:56 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.

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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Oct 05, 09:36:00 pm »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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