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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #92 - Fundamentals unchanged  (Read 560 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:10:30 am »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

It appears to me that we have another buying opportunity on our hands. None of the fundamentals have changed, but precious metals prices responded negatively to American government economic interventions - or rather, lack of interventions. The American government has chosen a conservative economic policy, which has also negatively affected stock market valuations. Look at it this way: No amount of conservatism today can compensate for the bumbling retardedness of the last 50 years or so. To be more precise, things won't even begin to get better until the wars stop.

That's good for us.

The hard asset boom in gold, silver, and coins peaked about 7 years after the Vietnam war ended. Right now, there are talks of ending the American wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and who-knows-where-else - but it hasn't happened yet. When it happens, that's when the big upward run begins. Currently, the war-ending discussions all talk about replacing official American soldiers with unofficial hired thugs. Both are funded with the same American money, which must inflate in order to keep up with the expense.

There is less and less "real stuff" behind the American dollar. Whatever there is, is getting squandered by the government. Ultimately, it will come down to the people, and that isn't looking good either. Americans are systematically discouraged from obtaining useful education - instead, the most promising careers in America all require an education in Criminal Justice - which is to say "imprisoning people". That's the top bet for America's future! Imprisoning people is the only thing America does better than anyone, so I makes disgusting sense.

The Statue of Liberty is French. The Moon Landing was done with captured German scientists and their technology. Nuclear science was done by mostly foreign scientists too. That isn't just a historical oddity either, it's the way America still is, right now.

See this 4 minute video, where Dr. Michio Kaku explains why Americans don't get educated:

<br />

The entire hour-long video is here (I don't necessarily agree with its premise):

<br />

Tamo42 has written up a great review of the current market conditions down below, so I want to keep this brief. I just want to explain to you that the long term fundamentals have not changed, and will not change for many more years. These cheap prices really are a gift, and a fantastic opportunity to obtain coins that will cost far more in the future. And, the coins are much more stable in their pricing than any other similar asset.

The current weakened market is not representative of the overall health of your coin investments. This is why selling is such a gamble right now. In contrast, buying is a potent investment strategy while the coins are cheap. Wherever we happen to be today, don't get so caught up in it that you forget where we're going...

UP!
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 30, 12:09:35 am by badon » Logged

Chinese coin investment articles
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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:10:57 am »

It's been quite a week. We've seen tremendous volatility in the precious metals markets. One day silver is down 7%. The next it's up 20%. Massive inflows and outflows of money all across the investment space. Basically, investors don't know where to turn for safety.

Enter modern Chinese coins.

We have definitely seen some softness in the market these past few days, but it's been really interesting to see what has held up and what has not. Essentially the most common and/or least popular coins have suffered the most. This is to be expected. More popular and/or rarer coins have been holding their already established price levels (although mostly in the lower regions of those levels).

To me, there are two ways to interpret this information. Either A) stick with badon's advice to buy the rarest coins you can afford at any given time and you won't have to worry about it or B) the more common stuff is on sale!

The coins in the sold list have mostly been silver coins in the $100-$400 range. Smart buyers are using this opportunity to scoop up auctions cheap. The Buy-It-Now sellers are still mostly on the high side of the market, so auctions are dominating in this don't-know-where-to-turn environment.

It's like the old Rothschild saying goes, the time to buy is when there is blood in the streets. The massive volatility in the precious metals markets is scaring the bejeezus out of the weak hands who can't see the big picture. If you have cash, now is a great time to bid.
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 29, 04:04:21 am by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:11:04 am »

Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 29, 03:39:55 am by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:11:17 am »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #91 article


Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt RatioAg oz priceAu oz price
1980 12 g copper olympic biathlon NGC PF 69 CA$355auctionthou11.50.21
1980 6 g copper olympic archery NGC PF 69 UC$385auctionthou12.40.23
1984 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1228auction1.5039.80.75
1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 69$102.5auction4.303.320.06
1987 1 oz gold New Orleans expo panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$2528auction1.5581.91.55
1987 27 g silver proof panda PCGS PF 69 UC$567.33auction21.118.30.34
1988 1 oz gold Cincinatti expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$1850Buy-It-Now1.1359.91.13
1989 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$132.62auction4.304.300.08
1989 15 g silver lunar snake NCS NGC PF 69 UC$493auction33.115.90.30
1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth clouded claw NCS NGC PF 68 UC$1250auction12.240.50.76
1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth super clear claw NCS NGC PF 69 UC$1500Buy-It-Now14.748.60.92
1989 P 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$201.5auction6.536.530.12
1989 P 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$267.51auction8.678.670.16
1990 1 oz silver panda large date NCS NGC MS 69$177.53auction5.755.750.10
1990 2 g silver dragon & phoenix NCS NGC PF 69 UC$240auction121.7.780.14
1991 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$182.61auction5.925.920.11
1991 2 oz silver piedfort 10th anniversary proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$1259auction20.440.80.77
1991 P 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$255auction8.268.260.15
1992 8 g gold lunar monkey PCGS PR 69 DCAM$1435auction3.4246.50.88
1992 P 1 oz silver proof panda mirror leaf NGC PF 69 UC$403auction13.013.00.24
1993 P 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$330.01auction10.710.70.20
1994 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$129.55auction8.404.200.07
1994 1/20 oz gold panda large date NGC MS 69$305auction3.749.880.18
1994 1/20 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$219.3auction2.697.110.13
1994 1/4 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$1075.6auction2.6434.80.66
1995 1 oz silver panda small twig large date PCGS MS 69$169.51auction5.495.490.10
1995 22 g silver Chinese traditional culture Peking opera NCS NGC PF 69 UC$96auction4.403.110.05
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$482auction15.615.60.29
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$408.99auction13.213.20.25
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn PCGS PR 69 DCAM$426.99auction13.813.80.26
1996 1/20 oz gold panda large date NGC PCGS MS 69$172.5auction2.125.590.10
1997 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$128auction4.154.150.07
1997 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$149.88Buy-It-Now4.854.850.09
1997 1 oz silver unicorn NGC MS 69$145auction4.704.700.08
1997 1/2 oz silver colored panda NGC PF 69 UC$79.12auction5.132.560.04
1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$95Buy-It-Now6.163.080.05
1998 1 oz silver colored proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$256auction8.308.300.15
1998 1 oz silver culture of dragons NGC MS 69$196.5auction6.376.370.12
1998 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$234.51auction7.607.600.14
1998 1/2 oz silver colored proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$118.5auction7.683.840.07
2000 1 oz silver Guangzhou expo panda NGC MS 69$638auction20.620.60.39
2000 1 oz silver Guangzhou expo panda NGC MS 69$650offer21.021.00.39
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$434.99auction14.114.10.26
2000 1/4 oz panda gold frosted PCGS MS 69$970Buy-It-Now2.3831.40.59
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NCS NGC MS 69$191.49auction6.206.200.11
2001 D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69$151.38auction4.904.900.09
2001 D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69$109.5auction3.553.550.06
2003 1 oz silver fan lunar sheep PCGS MS 69$217.5auction7.057.050.13
2004 1 oz silver fan lunar monkey PCGS MS 69$217.5auction7.057.050.13
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$183.17auction5.935.930.11
2005 1 oz silver fan lunar rooster PCGS MS 69$230auction7.457.450.14
2006 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$275auction8.918.910.16
2006 1 oz silver fan lunar dog PCGS MS 69$280auction9.079.070.17
2006 1 oz silver scallop flower lunar dog NGC PF 69 UC$250Buy-It-Now8.108.100.15
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$350auction11.311.30.21
2007 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 70 UC$199.99auction2.456.480.12
2008 1 oz silver fan lunar rat PCGS MS 69$223auction7.237.230.13
2008 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70$142.5auction1.754.620.08
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70$307.99auction9.989.980.18
2009 1 oz silver fan lunar ox PCGS MS 69$255auction8.268.260.15
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$134.51auction4.364.360.08
Total 61 coins:$26442.08857.16.2
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:11:23 am »

Our choices


badon's choices

* 1987 3.3 oz silver clear claw god of longevity
* 1987 3.3 oz silver ghost claw god of longevity
* 1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth, all 4 known varieties
* 1990 silver gods medals
* 1984 20 g silver pagodas
* 1984 20 g silver goldfish
* 1990 18 g silver goldfish
* 1998 1 oz silver large date pandas
* 1990 dated coins
* 1990 small size 1 g gold and 2 g silver dragon & phoenix
* 1995 to 1997 Romance of the Three Kingdoms
* Chinese Historical Figures coins that feature Three Kingdoms people
* 1989 Chinese Historical Figures set.
* 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary pandas in a 69 or 70 grade
* Lunars, all of them, but especially the scallop flower shaped designs
* All kinds of dragons
* Pandas, all of them - yes, ALLLL of them (except the exceptionally unexciting exceptions like the high mintage 2010 and 2011 1 oz silver and gold)
* 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Coins in a 70 grade
* Very rare coins over $5000 are about to make big moves again, after being dormant lately
* All varieties that are not yet recognized by books, catalogs, and the grading services
* All expo coins, including coins that do not have pandas on them
* Painting, literature, and all other kinds of art-themed coins

tamo42's choices

* fractional gold pandas from the 80s and 90s
* gold proof pandas selling at a discount to gold BU pandas
* dragons of all types
* 5 oz silver proof pandas
* Everything that is on sale!
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:11:31 am »

NCS conserved



Sellers who list coins with the words "NCS conserved" somewhere in their Ebay listing will show up here, regardless of grade. This is to enhance the value of both high and low grade coins that have been conserved, and can be advertised with the phrase "This coin has been conserved by NCS", or something similar.

NCS conserved Chinese coins

I routinely pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars EXTRA for a coin that comes from a dealer that I know always conserves his coins. If I pay thousands of dollars for a rare silver coin, it would be a tragedy if it developed the dreaded White Spots of Death later. I have never had a problem with any of my conserved silver coins.

If we're going to get NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins, we have to help dealers to earn a little extra money for them. This is a chicken-and-egg problem, where nobody labels NCS conserved coins because nobody is looking for them, and nobody is looking for them because nobody labels them. Now, sellers can tell us (on the honor system) which coins have been conserved.
 
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:12:33 am »

70 grade coins

1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 70

Sale Terms: $650 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 90000
Grade Stats: 10% earn this grade or better (20 out of 189 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $67-$128 MS 69
Comments: Problem seller. Rare in investment grade.

1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 70

Sale Terms: $379.95 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 90000
Grade Stats: 10% earn this grade or better (20 out of 189 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $67-$128 MS 69
Comments: Rare in investment grade.

1989 1/4 oz gold New York expo panda NGC PF 70 UC

Sale Terms: $6950 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 5000
Grade Stats: 02% earn this grade or better (2 out of 72 graded in total)
Recent Sales:
Comments: Scarce!

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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:12:49 am »

1990 1/10 oz gold panda large date NGC MS 70

Sale Terms: $2795 Buy-It-Now, or offer.
Mintage: 216546
Grade Stats: 14% earn this grade or better (1 out of 7 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $248-$550 MS 69
Comments: Rare in investment grade, even considering that the grading stats do not include 49 non-attributed coins. This is towards the upper end of the 3-5x range for MS 70s, but there are only 3 of them (1 large date, 2 unattributed) known to exist presently. There was a recent sale of $2400 from the same seller, but it was likely canceled.

1990 15 g silver unearthed discoveries leopard NGC PF 70 UC

Sale Terms: $1388 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 5000
Grade Stats: 03% earn this grade or better (4 out of 114 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $455 PF 69
Comments: Scarce!

1994 27 g silver olympic boxing NCS NGC PF 70 UC

Sale Terms: $600 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 30000
Grade Stats: 24% earn this grade or better (6 out of 25 graded in total)
Recent Sales:
Comments: Rare in investment grade. NCS conserved!

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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:12:55 am »

1997 2/3 oz silver modern paintings penguin NGC PF 70 UC

Sale Terms: $1950 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 8800
Grade Stats: 04% earn this grade or better (6 out of 147 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $950 PF 69
Comments: Underpriced at only 2x the PF 69 price. Rare in investment grade.

2000 1 oz silver Guangzhou expo panda NGC MS 70

Sale Terms: $3750 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 40000
Grade Stats: 02% earn this grade or better (2 out of 82 graded in total)
Recent Sales:
Comments: Rare in investment grade.

2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70

Sale Terms: $2999 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 33000
Grade Stats: 03% earn this grade or better (18 out of 569 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $144-$232 MS 69
Comments: Problem seller. Rare in investment grade.

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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Sep 29, 03:13:00 am »

2002 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70

Sale Terms: $2650 Buy-It-Now, or offer.
Mintage: 500000
Grade Stats: 11% earn this grade or better (85 out of 757 graded in total)
Recent Sales: $600-$911
Comments:

2003 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70

Sale Terms: $1299.99 Buy-It-Now.
Mintage: 600000
Grade Stats:  % earn this grade or better ( out of  graded in total)
Recent Sales: $610-$1150
Comments: This is a bit on the high side, but it's the only one available right now.

2003 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70

Sale Terms: $695 Buy-It-Now, or offer.
Mintage: 600000
Grade Stats:  % earn this grade or better ( out of  graded in total)
Recent Sales: $610-$1150
Comments:

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