Live Business Chat
2015 Sep 11, 08:13:17 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is a friendly non-profit discussion group about making money. Click the "NOTIFY" button every chance you get to receive instant alerts about new information. We don't like spam. If your first posts are about something you want from us, it is probably spam, and you will be banned in forums worldwide. No soliciting! If you have problems with the forum, contact badon in the business chat.
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #85 - Inflation, buyers vs sellers  (Read 7336 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
badon
Administrator
Capitalist Pig
*****
Online Online

Posts: 10305


badon™


« on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:11:21 pm »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

If KonaJim posted his thoughts on LBC, we would probably promote them to their own articles. His most recent post at CCF is quite insightful about the mechanism behind all the churning we're seeing in the market now:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3879.0

Quote
Sector rotation is a very common them in the stock market.  There are different ways to look at it.  Some say it's healthy for the market to move from one group to the next, almost like a relay team in track where each member goes his distance and then hands off the baton.  Others will say it's a sign of weakness and exhaustion.  Whatever the case may be the Chinese modern coin market is as fickle as a girl at her her first junior high school dance.  A few months ago everyone wanted Medals.  I think that started last year after the 1997 Silver Panda Munich medal achieved a record price.  Now it seems no one wants Medals.  There was a brief foray into bi-metals.  Let's not forget the 1983 silver Panda frenzy, but only in MS69.  We have also had a "69" panic, or hysteria where all coins must be graded "69".  We have had the silver Panda varieties,  The cloud craze, super clouds and super duper clouds.  Then there was the pagoda panic where a man without a Pagoda was a man without a house.  The good old days of the Unicorn and Lunar mania have subsided.  The Panda proofs have now been replaced with the new and improved Panda "BU" panic.  As a dealer it is amazing to see how quickly people are moving into and out of particular coins.  I think in the end it's going to be like my Father's tie collection.  He saved all his ties because he realized the widths, colors, and patterns rotated every few years.  The point being don't throw out your Basel Week Medals, your old Unicorns, or your old silver.  It will all come back again.  One thing to consider, instead of buying what everyone else is buying, buy what they are not buying.  First, you get a better price, and secondly you can sell it for a higher price when the panic, mania, and frenzy begin again.

As he is fond of saying, a rising tide lifts all boats. I believe the sectors are rotating like they normally do, but also that the market as a whole is benefitting from the rising tide. The American economy is perfectly flat right now. A dynamic thing like an economy can never stay flat for long - it would be like trying to balance a ball on the edge of a cliff. The must either roll off the edge, or roll to safety.

Likewise, the economy must either rise or fall. Being flat is an urgent indicator to monetary policy makers that they must act quickly to allow the economy to grow, or else face certain doom as the economy falls uncontrollably, faster and faster. The solutions will result in inflation, one way or another.

Inflation will create jobs and business opportunities for the top most productive people, at the expense of less productive people. Many of those people are sitting on cash and other assets that are unproductive, and will be losing value during inflation. That wealth is going to find a new home in hard assets like precious metals and coins.

Many people see this busy season coming, which is just one reason I think the profits will be more muted than previous times. We will see though....There are a few things that still could happen to change that unexpectedly, in either direction, with the upside (for us) being far more likely.

The increased inflation will help improve holiday-season economic numbers for the 2012 elections. People are wise to the manipulation now, so I expect it to be less successful than usual.

Enjoy another fat list of great coin buys. Prices are very good for the buyers. It is a buyer's market right now. Buyers who look beyond the next 6 to 10 months will rewarded. Buying now may provide maximum rewards after that timeframe, if in fact the busy season is more muted than usual.

My strategy has been to increase my income from normal earnings, to stay ahead of the inflation weed-out process. I am not buying as aggressively as I normally do, but I still am buying steadily using cash from my normal income. I am following KonaJim's contrarian advice to do it differently from the crowd. The crowd is selling coins to fund their buying. I have decided not to sell coins to fund my buying.

The effect of my strategy is that I'm buying much slower than usual. I'm taking my time to pick the best coins for me, and sitting on the extra coins in my stash to sell when it becomes a seller's market. It's subtle stuff, my strategy, but has a non-obvious overalll beneficial effect on the success of my investments.

I'm still putting every spare cent into coins, but I'm not stretching quite so much as I normally do.
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 04, 10:48:57 am by badon » Logged

If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
Coin, medal, whatever!
Coin storage advice.
FreeArc is amazing.
User contributions for Badon - Coin Compendium
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #1 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:13:51 pm »

The market definitely seems to be taking off, but buyers and sellers seem to have different ideas about what is going on. We're seeing a lot of sales, but we're also seeing a lot of unsold coins from sellers who are pricing their coins above the market.

Now this is normal, but it just seems to me that there are more going on right now.

But like I said, we're seeing a lot of coins sold. List #84 had 76 coins sold, and the Wed-Sat period is the slow time! Granted the overall dollar value of sales doesn't match the $100k list we had just recently, but $67k is a sizable amount of money. Collectors and investors are aware that the train is leaving the station.

Special Note: I forgot to mention that I write stuff that's actually not about pandas! For all those users who are new to LBC, check out my blog. Who knows, you might find something interesting! Click the "notify" button to stay up to date on all things non-panda related.
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 03, 07:31:09 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #2 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:13:56 pm »

Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 03, 05:15:23 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #3 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:02 pm »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.

Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #4 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:09 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #84 article

Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt Ratio
1980 10 g gold olympic committee NGC PF 69 UC$1875auction3.0943.30.9
1980 10 g silver olympic soccer NGC PF 69 CA$385auction27.68.900.2
1982 1/2 oz silver World Cup denomination above NGC PF 69 UC$184.38auction8.524.260.0
1983 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1213auction1.2828.00.6
1983 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$5208.88auction138.120.2.7
1984 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$550auction1.1612.70.2
1984 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$3015auction80.269.71.6
1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 69$76auction2.271.750.0
1987 1 oz gold New Orleans expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$2802auction1.4864.71.4
1987 8 g gold lunar rabbit PCGS PR 69 DCAM$2950auction6.0868.21.5
1987 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$950offer2.0121.90.5
1987 S 1/10 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$285auction1.516.580.1
1989 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69$182.5auction4.214.210.0
1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth super clouded claw NGC PF 68 UC$1588offer11.136.70.8
1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC MS 69$431auction9.969.960.2
1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC MS 69$650Buy-It-Now15.015.00.3
1990 1 oz silver panda large date PCGS MS 69$161.5auction3.733.730.0
1990 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$288.5auction6.676.670.1
1990 1/10 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$265auction1.406.120.1
1990 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$247.5auction1.315.720.1
1990 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$550auction1.1612.70.2
1990 15 g silver unearthed artifacts leopard NCS NGC PF 69 UC$455Buy-It-Now21.810.50.2
1990 18 g silver goldfish bubble eye NGC PF 69 UC$1123auction44.825.90.5
1990 18 g silver goldfish fantail NGC PF 69 UC$724auction28.916.70.3
1990 18 g silver goldfish oranda NGC PF 69 UC$867auction34.620.00.4
1990 18 g silver goldfish telescope eye NGC PF 69 UC$1047auction41.824.20.5
1990 2 g silver dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC$277.76auction99.86.420.1
1991 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$242.61auction5.605.600.1
1991 15 g silver lunar goat NGC PF 69 UC$650Buy-It-Now31.115.00.3
1991 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$1225auction2.6028.30.6
1992 1 oz silver panda large date NGC MS 69$301auction6.956.950.1
1992 1 oz silver panda large date PCGS MS 69$405auction9.369.360.2
1993 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$200Buy-It-Now9.244.620.1
1993 1/4 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$652.79auction1.3815.00.3
1993 30 g silver olympic fencing NGC PF 69 UC$188auction4.504.340.0
1994 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$370offer8.558.550.1
1994 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$575Buy-It-Now3.0513.20.3
1994 1/2 oz gold panda small date NCS NGC MS 69$2375auction2.5254.91.2
1994 27 g silver olympic boxing NGC PF 69 UC$188auction5.004.340.0
1994-1997 1 oz silver proof unicorn 4 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$3299.99Buy-It-Now19.076.31.7
1995 1 oz silver lunar pig NGC PF 69 UC$879Buy-It-Now20.320.30.4
1995 1/4 oz gold 1/8 oz silver bimetallic proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$4500auction9.44104.2.3
1995 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1565auction3.3236.10.8
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$624Buy-It-Now14.414.40.3
1996 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$130offer6.013.000.0
1997 1 oz silver Chongqing panda NGC MS 69$173.5auction4.014.010.0
1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$100Buy-It-Now4.622.310.0
1998 1 oz silver panda large date NCS NGC MS 69$588.88auction13.613.60.3
1998 1/10 oz gold colored lunar tiger NGC PF 69 UC$1633auction8.6637.70.8
1998 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$183.29auction8.474.230.0
1998 1/20 oz gold small date panda PCGS MS 69$1001.88auction10.623.10.5
1998 1/4 oz gold panda small date PCGS MS 69$1895Buy-It-Now4.0243.81.0
1998 1/4 oz gold panda small date PCGS MS 69$1895Buy-It-Now4.0243.81.0
1999 1 oz silver panda small date NGC MS 69$354auction8.188.180.1
2000 1 oz gold panda frosted NGC MS 69$2960.11auction1.5768.41.5
2000 1 oz gold panda frosted NGC MS 69$2916auction1.5467.41.5
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$485auction11.211.20.2
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$439auction10.110.10.2
2000 1 oz silver panda frosted NGC MS 69$539Buy-It-Now12.412.40.2
2000 1/10 oz gold panda frosted NGC MS 69$381auction2.028.800.2
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$232.5auction5.375.370.1
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$785.75auction18.118.10.4
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$528auction12.212.20.2
2003 1/20 oz platinum proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$255auction2.715.890.1
2004 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$251.5auction5.815.810.1
2004 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$610auction14.114.10.3
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$200.58auction4.634.630.1
2005 1/10 oz platinum proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$485auction2.5811.20.2
2006 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$350auction8.098.090.1
2007 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70$160.5auction1.703.710.0
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$280auction6.476.470.1
2010 1 oz silver capital market panda NGC MS 69$162.5auction3.753.750.0
2010 1 oz silver capital market panda NGC MS 69$162.5auction3.753.750.0
2010 1 oz silver Shanghai mint panda NGC MS 69$188.55auction4.354.350.1
2010 1 oz silver Shanghai mint panda NGC MS 69$191.38offer4.424.420.1
2010 5 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$670auction3.0915.40.3
Total 76 coins:$67780.83156735.
« Last Edit: 2011 Sep 03, 05:20:59 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #5 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:14 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/

Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #6 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:19 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #7 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:23 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #8 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:28 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
tamo42
Capitalist Pig
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17830



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 2011 Sep 03, 04:14:32 pm »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
Logged

Neal McSpadden
Get Coin Investments List Updates Here
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.09 seconds with 18 queries.