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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #82 - The aristocrats!  (Read 6436 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Aug 24, 10:44:14 am »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

Two big auctions finished recently: The Stack's Hong Kong auction, and the Heritage Chicago ANA auction. These auctions have been part of the reason so many nice coins have been hitting the market lately. The sellers are raising funds for their purchases at these auctions. Many of the purchasers were dealers, and in a few months, we'll see some of these coins in this list, around the peak of the busy season.

Coins that have never been to auction before were seen for the first time at these events. Many of the rarest and most interesting ones were the medals. As tamo42 notes in this list, below, huge quantities of coins are changing hands. I don't remember a single list selling as many coins as the last one did. Plus, the list is being published twice each week, where previously it was once per week or less.

Prices have been about the same as usual for most of the coins, and there were many bargains. Although the pricing in the market has seemed a little weak recently, there have been mobs of buyers eager to buy them up. So, we have some mixed signals: Weak selling, but strong buying.

I tend to ignore these short term signals, so you won't be getting an opinion on them from me. However, I do sense that overall strength in the market is building up a little slower than in previous years when coming out of a summer slow season, and that when strength is reached, it may at first seem weak, but will peak later than expected too. It all depends on when and how America handles its inflation situation, leading up to 2012 elections.

America has to choose between joblessness, and inflation. They can't control both. In the process of trying to manipulate public perception of these prior to the elections, they must make the problem worse and longer lasting. This is why some people are selling coins cheaply, while others are aggressively buying them. The sellers are the short term people, while the buyers are the long term people (or dealers who intend to sell to long term people).

The people who are selling are worried about short term declines in their wealth, while the people who are buying are increasing their overall long term wealth. The buyers need to have strong hands to keep them from selling into short term market weaknesses that try to shake out the ones who aren't strong enough to be the nobility of the new dark age. In all dark ages, what matters is material wealth in assets, not paper wealth.

When a feudal lord discusses his wealth, he does not speak of the number and quantity of the contracts he holds (like paper dollars) - instead he speaks of his lands and their productivity, as well as his gold, jewels, servants, and military might. Basically, his only true wealth is the wealth that serves him, or is of interest to other wealthy people. Those are productive assets you can eat, like farmland, and human resources like laborers and security forces. And, of course, the shiny, glittery stuff that wealthy people trade back and forth amongst each other, because nobody else can afford them.

That's the widening gap between rich and poor. Everyone is getting poorer, but the people who are already poor hit the ground hard, while the rich people decline, but still accumulate assets that will be worth more when conditions improve for everyone. In every dark age for the West, the East experiences a golden age. These shiny, glittery things that Western nobility treasure often either come from the East, or end up there eventually in exchange for "spices".

This is why Western shiny and glittery things are not as valuable as Eastern ones. This is why I own Chinese coins, and not American ones. I'm also never going to exchange them for "spices", because I don't live an extravagant, luxury lifestyle. If you want to be successful in the new Western dark age, it won't be enough to just be nobility. You have to be the BEST nobility - the aristocrat. The common knights come and go as their fortunes rise and fall, but the aristocrat evolves into "old money" that is always powerful, and always available.

The aristocrat doesn't wear the finest silks, and doesn't engage in holy wars. That's for kings that get themselves beheaded, and wannabes that end up in the poor house. The aristocrat endures because he dresses well, but modestly. He eats well, but modestly. He thinks of what is going on around him, and whether criminal or benevolent, he is wary of the state of happiness of the roving masses beneath him, because he knows that their fate is his fate, inevitably.

Forgo the "spices" and the Chinese "silks". Stick to the cold onions and cotton smocks. Accumulate wealth, don't spend it or send it (to the East). As the dark age progresses, you may be the last noble aristocrat standing when it comes time to select a new king for the West...
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 24, 01:36:53 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:51:13 am »

It has been quite a week here at LBC. The current slowdown has combined with an amazing availability of high quality coins has led to an explosion of purchases!

The sold coins from list #81 comes in at over $100,000. Just in case it isn't clear, this is amazing!

I can only hope that LBC readers were the ones to grab these fantastic deals.

In other news, there will be some changes to my picks coming. I've been doing some investigation into the sold listings over the past several weeks and have noticed some interesting patterns. Stay tuned, more will be added over the next few days in the list.

Be sure you have your notifications on for new postings!
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 24, 12:30:52 pm by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:51:19 am »

Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 24, 12:26:39 pm by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:51:31 am »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:51:52 am »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #81 article

Holy macaroni! $103k in sold coins! The glut of quality coins on the market has made for some fantastic deals. I can only hope that LBC readers got them.

Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt Ratio
1982 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$500offer2.76
1983 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1309auction1.44
1983-1985 27 g silver proof panda 3 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$10000auction93.6
1984 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$2278auction1.26
1985 1/4 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$575auction1.27
1986 1/2 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$1152auction1.27
1986 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Zhang Heng NGC PF 69 UC$199.95auction6.89
1986 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Zu Chong Zhi NGC PF 69 UC$189.95auction6.55
1987 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$710auction19.9
1987 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$825offer23.1
1987 S 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69 $1999.99offer1.10
1987 S 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1420offer1.57
1988 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1999auction1.10
1988 1/4 oz gold Sakyamuni Buddha NGC PF 70 UC$1022auction2.26
1988 5 oz silver proof panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC$999auction4.87
1989 1 oz silver New York expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$608auction14.8
1989 1/20 oz gold panda NCS NGC MS 69$163.49auction1.80
1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth super clear claw NGC PF 69 UC$1500offer11.0
1990 1 g gold dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC$450Buy-It-Now7.74
1990 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$181.5auction4.42
1990 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$176.1auction4.29
1990 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$560auction1.23
1990 2 g silver dragon & phoenix NCS NGC PF 69 UC$286.76auction108.
1990 27 g silver olympic bicycling NGC PF 69 UC$192.49auction5.40
1991 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$272.76auction6.65
1991 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$256auction6.24
1991 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$266.11auction6.49
1991 15 g silver lunar goat NGC PF 69 UC$560auction28.3
1991 27 g silver olympic table tennis NGC PF 69 UC$192.48auction5.40
1993 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$160offer7.80
1993 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$152.5auction7.44
1993 2/3 oz silver scallop flower lunar rooster NGC PF 69 UC$999auction36.5
1993 30 g silver olympic fencing NGC PF 70 UC$800offer20.2
1994 1 oz silver Munich expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$1250auction30.4
1994 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$2004auction2.21
1994 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$129.95auction6.34
1994 1/4 oz gold 1/8 oz silver bimetallic proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$3082auction6.74
1994 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 70 UC$3138auction6.94
1995 1 oz silver large twig panda NGC MS 69$270.01auction6.58
1995 27 g silver olympic gymnast NGC PF 69 UC$192.48auction5.40
1996 1/10 oz platinum panda NGC PF 70 UC$1146auction6.20
1996 1/2 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 70$4639.89auction5.13
1996 1/2 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 70$3850auction4.26
1996 P 1/20 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$330auction3.65
1997 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$205offer5.00
1997 1 oz silver lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC$699.99Buy-It-Now17.0
1997 1 oz silver lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC$599.99Buy-It-Now14.6
1997 1 oz silver lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC$495offer12.0
1997 1/10 oz gold auspicious matters NGC MS 69$235auction1.30
1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$110Buy-It-Now5.36
1998 1 oz silver aviation expo panda NGC MS 69$299.95auction7.31
1998 1 oz silver goddes Mazu NGC MS 69$175auction4.26
1998 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$260.57auction6.35
1998 1/2 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$200Buy-It-Now9.75
1998 1/4 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 70$3015.01auction6.67
1998 27 g silver WWF clouded leopard NGC PF 69 UC$225.5auction6.33
1999 1 oz silver lunar rabbit NGC PF 69 UC$1299.99Buy-It-Now31.7
1999 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$263.33auction6.42
1999 1/10 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69$510auction2.82
1999 1/2 oz gold large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 70$6433.33auction7.12
1999 1/4 oz gold large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 70$4739auction10.4
2000 1 oz gold mirror panda NGC MS 69$7850auction4.34
2000 1 oz silver frosted panda NGC MS 69$455auction11.1
2000 1/10 oz gold lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC$799auction4.42
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NCS NGC MS 69$225.73auction5.50
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NCS NGC MS 69$175.5auction4.28
2002 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 70$3250auction3.59
2002 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 70$1673.01auction3.70
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$413auction10.0
2004 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 70$12600auction6.97
2004 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$215.01auction5.24
2004 1 oz silver commercial bank panda NGC MS 69$200.26auction4.88
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$209.49auction5.11
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$350auction8.53
2005 1/10 oz gold panda NGC MS 70$381auction2.10
2006 1 oz silver Beijing bank panda NGC MS 70$699.95auction17.0
2006 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 70$777auction1.71
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda PCGS MS 70$269.38auction6.57
Total 78 coins:$103298.40
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:52:38 am »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:52:54 am »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:53:03 am »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:53:47 am »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Aug 24, 11:53:55 am »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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