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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #80  (Read 5660 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:29:22 am »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

Forum activity is increasing at both LBC and the CCF. All signs are pointing towards increased market activity going forward out of the slowdown. Many sellers are making very rare coins available in anticipation of the need for cash to take advantage of opportunities to buy more coins. Cash has been extremely tight for almost everyone, and some incredible rarities have been selling for dirt cheap prices.

That's what we care about! As investment buyers, we want bargains. One of my favorite coins of 2011 has been the pagoda set. I have talked about it quite a lot because it has been the fastest rising modern Chinese coins, percentagewise, for the last year (that I know of). They did over 3000% gains, when they sold for a peak price of $25,000 for an NGC 69 set of 4 coins. Other sets available on the market were pulled in anticipation of higher prices.

Then, in the middle of the night when nobody was looking, a Kaiyuan and Yingxian coins sold at auction for about $2500 each, both in a 69 grade. The seller refused to sell to Chinese buyers, too. That's a bad way to sell, but a great way to buy! These same coins have sold in 68 grades and lower for about the same price, and these are the first 69 grade specimens to become available at a public auction.

In tamo42's sold coins list from the last list (#79), he notes a few other cheapies that went by too. Clearly, the buying season is not over yet!

Watch for auctions that end at strange times, and auctions where the seller will not sell to Chinese buyers. Tamo42 has noted that 70 coins are a great buy right now, and I agree. But that doesn't count because I always agree to buy 70 coins Smiley

Good luck!
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 17, 12:54:53 pm by badon » Logged

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tamo42
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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:33:54 am »

The summer slow down rears it's beautiful head!

Slowdowns are fantastic opportunities for buyers. Right now, there are are more 70-grade coins available than I can ever remember seeing, and some of them are going cheap! Check out the sold listings for proof (and proofs, hah!).

On a more technical note, a lot of people have expressed appreciation for the additional statistics I provide - mintage stats, grading stats, and recent sales. I just want to make sure everyone knows that when I post a new listing that has popped up on eBay I often don't have time to fill out those pieces of information. But when a whole new list is published, like today, all of those fields will be filled out to the best of my knowledge. So be sure to go through the listings to find out all the relevant details.
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 17, 10:03:01 am by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:33:59 am »

Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 17, 09:55:15 am by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:05 am »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:13 am »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #79 article


1982 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69 - $790 - Even in the slowdown, these are continuing to rise in price.

1999 1/20 oz gold large date plain 1 NGC MS 70 - $488 - This coin was listed for less than 2 minutes before it was snapped up. MS 69s are going in the high $300s, so this was a fantastic deal. Make sure you are getting notifications!

Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt Ratio
1982 1/4 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$790auction1.76
1984 20 g silver pagoda Kaiyuan Temple NGC PF 69 UC$2600auction101.
1984 20 g silver pagoda Yingxian Temple NGC PF 69 UC$2675auction104.
1984 20 g silver pagoda Zhenjue Temple NGC PF 68 UC$1377auction53.6
1986 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$295Buy-It-now1.64
1986 22 g silver Chinese historical figures 4 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$999auction8.84
1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 69$127.5auction4.13
1986 24 g silver Empress of China NGC MS 69$81auction2.62
1987 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Du Fu NGC PF 69 UC$259.95Buy-It-now9.20
1987 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Li Bai NGC PF 69 UC$259.95Buy-It-now9.20
1987 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Li Chun NGC PF 69 UC$259.95Buy-It-now9.20
1989 1 oz silver lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC$1427auction35.8
1989 22 g silver children's fund panda NGC PF 69 UC$388auction13.7
1990 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$199auction4.99
1990 1 oz silver Munich expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$1400Buy-It-now35.1
1990 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$399auction10.0
1990 15 g silver lunar horse NGC PF 69 UC$799auction41.4
1990 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Li Zicheng NGC PF 69 UC$259.95Buy-It-now9.20
1990 P 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$320auction8.03
1993 1 oz silver olympic fencing NGC PF 69 UC$167auction4.19
1993 P 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$500Buy-It-now12.5
1994 1 oz silver Munich expo panda NGC PF 69 UC$1250Buy-It-now31.3
1994 1 oz silver olympic boxing NGC PF 69 UC$150auction3.76
1994 silver and gold proof unicorn 4 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$2426auction3.20
1995 1 oz silver large twig panda NGC MC 69$219.99auction5.52
1995 1 oz silver small twig small date NGC MS 69$2424auction60.8
1996 1 oz silver large date panda PCGS MS 69$132.61auction3.33
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC$650Buy-It-now16.3
1996 1/2 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69$70.9auction3.56
1997 1 oz silver Kuan Yin NGC MS 69$265auction6.65
1997 1 oz visit china panda NGC MS 69$299Buy-It-now7.51
1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$89auction4.47
1998 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69$271.33auction6.81
1998 1/2 oz silver Hong Kong expo panda NGC MS 69$128.9auction6.47
1999 1 oz silver large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 69$1095Buy-It-now27.5
1999 1/2 oz gold large date plain 1 panda NGC MS 69$2000auction2.23
1999 1/2 oz gold large date plain 1 panda PCGS MS 69$2400auction2.67
1999 1/20 oz gold large date plain 1 NGC MS 70$488Buy-It-now5.44
1999 1/20 oz gold large date plain 1 panda NGC MS 69$255auction2.84
2000 1 oz silver frosted panda NCS NGC MS 69$511.01auction12.8
2000 1 oz silver frosted panda NGC MS 69$460auction11.5
2000 1/10 oz gold frosted panda NGC MS 69$305auction1.70
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NCS NGC MS 69$175.5auction4.40
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$192.5auction4.83
2004 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$235.7auction5.92
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69$207.59auction5.21
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$393auction9.87
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$403auction10.1
2005 1 oz silver scallop flower lunar rooster NGC PF 69 UC$232.48auction5.83
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$465auction11.6
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$380auction9.54
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary proof panda 1999 NGC MS PF 69 UC$41auction4.11
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary proof panda 2007 NCS NGC PF 69 UC$90offer9.04
2008 5 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$810auction4.06
Total 54 coins:$35099.81
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:19 am »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:24 am »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 17, 09:51:04 am by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:30 am »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:35 am »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Aug 17, 09:34:39 am »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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