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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #75  (Read 2200 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:01:48 pm »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

Tamo42 has been filling out the last several lists. He's taken over most of the tasks required to produce these lists, especially the coin research involved in identifying investment-grade coins to include in the list. The results have been very positive. He has improved on the way I used to do it in many ways.

* We get our lists reliably twice each week, once for the weekends, and once for mid-week.
* They have lots more information about each coin, that tamo42 diligently researches for us.
* Improved article preparation methods save time that can instead be used to include more coins in the list than I was able to do.
* A whole new analytical perspective that involves hard data in determining the relative superiority of one coin over another.
* Some features of the list that I had to stop doing due to lack of time have returned under tamo42's more time-efficient stewardship.
* ...and many others.

The last list #74 had two incredible bargains that were each valued at least $1000 more than the prices the sellers were asking for the coins. Both coins sold within minutes, probably to buyers who received instant email notifications as soon as tamo42 posted them. The same person got both coins (so I'm told), and that works out to a cool $2000 to $3000 profit (at least!) for just 10 seconds worth of work by the lucky buyer who was quick to check what the new LBC post notifications were about.

I then realized there was yet another noticeable advantage to tamo42 doing the lists now - If I had been doing the list, those two coins would not have made it in the list because I would have bought them instantly, instead of posting them. Although I often posted great bargains also, those two particular coins were the kind of coins I look for (especially the god of war & wealth).

So, the most interesting positive result now that tamo42 is doing the list is that I'm not buying up all the good stuff myself!

People often ask me questions like "If this coin is such a good investment, why didn't you buy it yourself instead of posting it?". The answer to that was usually something like "Because I can't afford to buy everything", and I would sometimes even admit that the only reason I posted such a great coin was because I had just ran out of cash.

Now, my answer would be "Because tamo42 saw it (and posted it to the list) before I did", haha! So, not only is the list overall just better due to tamo42's managing of the list, it's actually more profitable now, especially for the people who are registered on the forum and react quickly to the notifications they receive.

One of these days we're going to have to go back in time and see what the current value is for all the coins sold on these lists. In a year's time, I would be surprised if the current value were not more than 150% of what was paid for them. This is list #75, and I stopped counting the value of the sales at around $500,000.

I think we've been doing these lists for a few months less than a year. Once we hit the year mark, I'll have to hassle a volunteer to crunch the numbers for us, and see if the list is as profitable for the buyers as we think it is.

Actually, we could do this just with the oldest postings, and only calculate on coins that were sold 1 year or more ago. My rule of thumb for this crazy market is that a coin should double in about 18 months, so we could extend the timeframe a bit more, to accommodate more conservative expectations.

But, just for curiosity's sake, I wonder what was paid for the coins in the first few lists, and what they're worth now? Do the cold, hard facts objectively prove that LBC really does make you rich?

A reminder: Ebay/PayPal is the biggest, safest, and best way to buy coins. Sellers with a record of poor customer service suddenly shape up and start dealing more professionally once they enter the Ebay market. Ebay maintains policies that favor the buyers if something goes wrong, so sellers who want to sell coins profitably on Ebay just have to make sure that their customers get what they were led to expect.

Buyers, know that you are the customer, and on ebay, the customer is always right. But, don't abuse your status as the customer. If you make yourself a pest, sellers are not required to sell to you, and Ebay will side with the seller in disputes that involve you. In short, the advantages Ebay confers upon buyers comes with the responsibility to use them wisely, for the benefit of everyone. Ebay needs lots of buyers AND sellers, but the world will not miss just one troublemaker that gets kicked out.

A wise and incredibly successful businessman I know once told me that the best way to make sure your company succeeds is to make sure that everyone working for you knows they are replaceable. I gave that advice some thought, and you know what? Not only is it correct advice, but it's actually true for EVERYONE, including the boss.

Ebay knows that they are replaceable. As soon as Ebay stops being the best place on Earth to buy and sell stuff, people will just replace them with another venue. Buyers, sellers, and Ebay itself are all 100% replaceable.

So, in the words of a great man: "Be excellent to each other".
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 30, 02:09:08 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:03:50 pm »

It's been a busy week here at the LBC coin investment list. We had a number of seller mistakes in listings that have allowed buyers to profit enormously. The format for the listings is changing. I'm still working on filling out all the research data, so be patient. As this data becomes more complete, you will be able to see at a glance why a coin is valuable. After all, there are only a few reasons why coins become valuable: mintage/surviving population rarity, grade rarity, beauty, and popularity. The statistics will help you determine the status of mintage and grade rarity very quickly. Beauty and popularity are, of course, subjective.

Badon and I have also split the "My choices" list into his and mine. While we pretty much agree that everything remains a great value considering the future trends of the Chinese coin market, we emphasize different things. As an example, on my list is 5 oz silver proof pandas. Even 2011 5 oz pandas have a planned mintage of 20,000. These are currently going unsold on eBay for $900.

Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* Our choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Aug 02, 01:04:02 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
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The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:02 pm »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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Neal McSpadden
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The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:07 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #74 article

There were a number of really interesting sales from list #74. A few sellers made mistakes, and it looks like those who were quick on their feet managed to profit substantially.

1998 1 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69 - $1800. This seller apparently didn't realize that this coin was worth twice the asking price. Perhaps it was a mis-click of the mouse making it a Buy-It-Now instead of an auction. Even experienced sellers can make mistakes of this kind when they get in a hurry. Regardless of the reason why, this was a phenomenal deal!

1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth clouded claw NGC PF 69 UC - $1800. This coin sold at half price because the seller put the wrong picture up. Fortunately, the report is that the seller is being forced to honor its mistake through the eBay system.

Coin Sold  Sale Price  Sale Type  Melt Ratio
1985 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$1837auction1.12
1985 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$175auction2.15
1985 1/3 oz gold Chinese historical figures Confucius NGC PF 69 UC$1240auction2.28
1985 15 g silver lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC$812auction42.1
1986 gold proof panda 5 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$4400offer1.42
1987 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$796auction22.9
1987 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC$585auction1.43
1987 S 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$1900auction1.16
1987 Y 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69$1927auction1.18
1988 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69$1711auction1.05
1988 gold proof panda 5 coin set NGC PF 69 UC$4400offer1.42
1989 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69$145.04auction3.63
1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth clouded claw NGC PF 69 UC$1800Buy-It-Now13.6
1989 40th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China NGC PF 69 UC$1625auction3.99
1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC$1155auction2.75
1990 P 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$305.55auction7.64
1990 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM$598auction1.46
1991 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$350offer8.76
1992 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$350offer8.76
1993 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69$499offer12.4
1995 1 oz silver proof unicorn PCGS P 69 DCAM$1100offer27.5
1995 1/10 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$715auction4.39
1995 15 g silver Chinese traditional culture Great Wall NGC PF 69 UC$450offer23.3
1995 bimetallic proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC$4725auction11.4
1996 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69$3300auction2.02
1996 1 oz silver small date panda PCGS MS 69$152auction3.80
1997 1 oz silver Sino-Thai friendship NGC PF 70 UC$499auction12.4
1998 1 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69$1800Buy-It-Now1.10
1999 1/20 oz large date plain 1 panda PCGS MS 69$310.55auction3.81
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$397offer9.93
2006 1 oz silver horicultural expo panda NGC MS 69$225Buy-It-Now5.63
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70$497offer12.4
2008 1/10 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70$359.88auction2.21
2010 1 oz silver capital market panda NGC MS 69$199.99Buy-It-Now5.00
2010 1 oz silver capital market panda NGC MS 69$201.5auction5.04
2010 1 oz silver Shanghai mint panda NGC MS 69$222.5auction5.56
Total 36 coins:$41765.01
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 30, 01:23:57 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
Honest Silver and Gold, LP - Earn 3% a Month By Turning Silver and Gold into Cash Flow
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:12 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:18 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:23 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!

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Neal McSpadden
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:29 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
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Neal McSpadden
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The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:33 pm »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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Neal McSpadden
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The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jul 30, 01:04:42 pm »

Recommended reading



Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* For those new to the modern Chinese coin market (By Batman)
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Black Swans, Fake Chinese coins, badon, & ebay! (By r3globe)
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor
* Why You Should Collect (or Invest) in Gold Panda Fractional BUs (By Batman)

Here's some handy websites for basic coin facts like mintages:

* Modern China Coins Data sorted by series
* china-mint.info Data sorted by year
* china-mint.info silver actual mintages
* china-mint.info gold actual mintages
* Chinese Coin Forum
* The Coin Compendium is coming!

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.
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Neal McSpadden
Honest Silver and Gold, LP - Earn 3% a Month By Turning Silver and Gold into Cash Flow
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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