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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #72  (Read 4623 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jul 20, 03:53:23 pm »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

The recent price action in the gold and silver markets are unusually exciting. Grip has pointed out that coin prices have not kept up with precious metals prices, which signals that coins are still in bargain territory. Grip's analysis is based on tracking coin prices with gold, instead of dollars. This reveals when coins are moving in step with gold, and when they are not.

The coin market is usually disconnected from the precious metals markets. When precious metals go up, coins go up too, but not immediately. The things causing coins to go up is at least somewhat similar to the things causing gold to go up, so you will notice some relationship between the two.

However, when gold drops, coins are much less likely to follow than they are when gold goes up. This is because coins are reliably following the trend of increasing valuation of hard assets, while gold is much more vulnerable to both normal volatility in liquid markets, and criminal manipulation by the governments and their associates that "regulate" those markets.

Coins don't necessarily always follow the trend though, and I'm watching for that. I see no signs of the upward trend changing to a downward trend, but when it does, the coin market will probably follow within 10 years. Coins have reasonably stable valuations even when they're going against the trend. That's why I like them so much, and that's why many of the world's wealthiest people have at least some money in a coin collection.

That's why they call coin collecting "the hobby of kings", due to it's historical founding roots in the collections of ancient kings and emperors that began at about the same time as the technology of minting.

Now that we've had so much action in the precious metals markets, I think it's safe to say that the peak of the slowdown is definitely behind us. I probably said that in the last article too, but it's worth repeating. Things are still slow, but they're speeding up at an increasing rate.

In August, the auction season begins, and new price records will be set. By September, coin fever will have a grip on many of us, and we should be feeling pretty good about the profitable purchases we have made during the summer slowdown.

We're starting to see a lot more high prices on coins, as well as a few low prices. This is sort of like the choppy waves of an ocean as the wind starts to pick up. The high prices show people are willing to pay above market values to obtain nice coins, and the low prices show that there's still bargains to buy. However, a rising tide lifts all boats, so we should see increasing prices overall very soon. August is less than 2 weeks away!
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 20, 08:27:07 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:17:25 pm »

It's been a busy couple of days. Over 50 coins from LIST #71 totals have been bought. There seem to be a prevalence of auctions, which has made for some good deals. Be sure to check out the $20k+ sale!


Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* My choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 20, 05:04:50 pm by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:17:41 pm »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:18:28 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #72 article

A lot of coins were sold over the past few days.

1996 1 oz gold lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC  $22,322 auction. Wow, quite a price! This coin has a mintge of just 1800. Goes to show how much people value rarity.

1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $570 offer.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $326.88 auction. These two coins together show what a wide range there can be in just a few days.

1990 27 g silver world famous cultural figures Beethoven PCGS PF 69 UC  $204.50 auction. I was rather surprised that this coin sold in the same range as more traditional Chinese themes of the same mintage.

1980 15 g silver olympic soccer NGC PF 69 UC  $835 auction.
1980 18 g brass piedfort olympics wrestling NGC PF 69 UC  $3001 auction.
1983 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69  $418.59 auction.
1984 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69  $202.50 auction.
1985 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69  $202.50 auction.
1986 1/20 oz gold panda NGC MS 69  $247.50 auction.
1986 15 g silver lunar tiger NGC PF 69 UC  $1225 auction.
1987 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Du Fu PCGS PF 69 UC  $255.01 auction.
1987 5 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $10,407.22 auction
1988 8 g gold WWF golden haired monkey NGC PF 69 UC  $900 auction.
1989 1 oz silver lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC  $1476 auction.
1989 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69  $133.75 auction.
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $256 auction.
1989 1/3 oz gold Chinese historical figures Genghis Khan NGC PF 69 UC  $1725 auction.
1989 1/4 oz gold New York expo panda NGC PF 69 UC  $949 offer.
1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC  $1075 auction.
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $316.11 auction
1990 1/10 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC  $810 auction.
1990 1/4 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1250 auction.
1990 27 g silver world famous cultural figures Beethoven PCGS PF 69 UC  $204.50 auction.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $570 offer.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $326.88 auction.
1991 P 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1581 auction.
1991 P 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $565 auction.
1991 P 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1480 auction.
1992 15 g silver marco polo NGC PF 69 U  $239 offer.
1993 1/10 oz gold ancient painting peacocks NGC MS 69  $515.55 auction.
1993 2/3 oz silver scallop flower lunar rooster NGC PF 69 UC  $1285 auction.
1994 bimetallic proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM  $3250 offer.
1995 1 oz silver large twig large date panda NGC MS 69  $127.50 auction.
1995 1 oz silver large twig large date panda PCGS MS 70  $1275 auction.
1996 1 oz gold lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC  $22,322 auction.
1996 2/3 oz silver scallop flower lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC  $676 auction.
1997 1/10 oz gold auspicious matters NGC MS 69  $265 auction.
1997 1/10 oz gold auspicious matters NGC MS 69  $455 auction.
1998 1 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69  $3650 auction.
1998 1/20 oz gold small date panda PCGS MS 69  $1526 auction.
1999 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69  $278 auction.
1999 1/2 oz gold large date plain 1 panda NGC MS 69  $1926 auction.
1999 1/2 oz gold plain 1 panda NGC MS 69  $2051 auction.
2000 1 oz silver frosted panda NGC MS 69  $575 offer.
2000 1 oz silver mirror and frosted panda 2 coin set NGC MS 69  $2779.99 Buy-It-Now.
2000 1/10 oz gold frosted panda PCGS MS 69  $355.88 auction.
2000 1/10 oz gold lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC  $846 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69  $241.50 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69  $225.38 auction.
2004 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69  $135 auction.
2004 1/20 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC  $338 auction.
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69  $250 auction.
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70  $331 auction.
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70  $458 offer.
2008 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70  $198.73 auction.
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 21, 07:40:59 am by tamo42 » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:18:52 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/


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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:19:04 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:19:15 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:19:28 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:19:38 pm »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jul 20, 04:19:54 pm »

Recommended reading



Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* For those new to the modern Chinese coin market (By Batman)
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Black Swans, Fake Chinese coins, badon, & ebay! (By r3globe)
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor
* Why You Should Collect (or Invest) in Gold Panda Fractional BUs (By Batman)

Here's some handy websites for basic coin facts like mintages:

* Modern China Coins Data sorted by series
* china-mint.info Data sorted by year
* china-mint.info silver actual mintages
* china-mint.info gold actual mintages
* Chinese Coin Forum
* The Coin Compendium is coming!

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 20, 07:17:33 pm by badon » Logged

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