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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #71  (Read 576 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jul 17, 11:15:40 am »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

2002 1 oz silver NGC MS 69 pandas have pulled back quite a bit from a peak of about $280 recently, to the current $180 level. Even at the lower price, that's still almost double what they were selling for before they began their upward run. This coin took off during the slowdown, which shows the strong buyer confidence that's lurking and waiting for when this market takes off again after the slowdown, later in the year.

A 1983 22 g silver marco polo NGC PF 69 UC with a mintage of 15,000 sold for $1225 at auction, while a 1992 15 g silver marco polo NCS NGC PF 69 UC with a mintage of 30,000 sold for $170. The 1992 is more than 7 times cheaper than the 1983, even though the mintage rarity of the 1983 is only double. All the rest of the remaining 5 times price premium of the 1983 is due to grade rarity. There are a total of 406 1983's that have been graded, but only 1 in 5 earn a PF 69 UC. Many of them had to be submitted because it's hard to get one in a 69 grade. There are only 50 1992's graded, but 3 in 5 of those earn a PF 69 UC, which makes it much easier to obtain a 69.

Also notice that a little extra rarity makes a much larger increase in price. In other words, a coin that is 3 times as rare can be valued at more than 7 times the price!

The generous appreciation of grade rarity is a positive sign for the strength of the market.
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 17, 12:19:29 pm by badon » Logged

Chinese coin investment articles
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tamo42
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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:01:18 pm »

tamo42's notes: I've noticed a few things over the past couple weeks that I've been compiling this list. First, sellers seem to still be valuing a PCGS 69 as much more valuable than a NGC 69. Unfortunately for them, buyers seem to disagree. As a result, NGC graded coins tend to be a better value than PCGS graded coins. The second thing I've noticed is that in a lot of cases, best offer prices are getting closer to Buy-It-Now prices. I'm think this indicates that we've passed the peak of the slowdown.

Also, I've done a bit of tweaking to the lists. I've arranged them in date order and taken out listings that were overpriced. With the same dates clustered together, it should be easier for you to make a better buying decision. As an extreme example, there are two 1993 1 oz silver invention & discovery fu lu shu NGC MS 69's listed. One is from a problem seller for $465. The other is from a good seller at $888.88. Is it worth dealing with the problem seller for such a big difference in price? Up to you, but having them next to each other makes the choice clear.


Table of contents


Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Opera web browser
* Coins sold from the previous list
* Chinese coins are better
* Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts
* Recommended reading
* My choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 17, 01:34:49 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:01:32 pm »

Opera web browser



I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:01:41 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #70 article

1993 22 g silver invention & discovery NGC PF 70  $610 auction. This one was pretty interesting because PF 69 specimens are going in the low $100s. So this auction was at the top end of the normal 3-5x range.

2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary set panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1276 auction. This went incredibly cheaply. Ungraded sets are going for anywhere from $700 to $1200. Individual coins graded PF 69 UC have gone for $100 or more a piece. It seems the trend of larger sets being discounted is still in place.

1998 1/10 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69  $1440 auction. I just wanted to highlight this one because it fit with Batman's point about old fractional gold being a still undervalued sector.

1998 1/2 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69  $121.42 auction. Just a few months ago these were going for $45. It seems people are finally beginning to notice fractional silver.

1980 15 g silver olympic soccer NGC PF 69 UC  $560 auction.
1982 1/2 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69  $3100 Buy-It-Now.
1983 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69  $3150 Buy-It-Now.
1983 22 g silver Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC  $1225 auction.
1985 15 g silver lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC  $1110 auction.
1988 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $698 Buy-It-Now.
1988 8 g gold lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC  $1675 auction.
1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC  $1175 auction.
1990 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69  $216.50 auction.
1990 1 oz silver large date panda PCGS MS 69  $325 Buy-It-Now.
1990 8 g gold lunar horse NGC PF 69 UC  $1520 auction.
1990 8 g gold lunar horse PCGS PF 69 UC  $1350 auction.
1990 bimetallic Hong Kong expo panda 2 coin set NGC PF 68/69 UC  $4999 auction.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $570 offer.
1992 15 g silver marco polo NCS NGC PF 69 UC  $170 offer.
1993 1 oz silver ancient painting peacock NGC PF 69 UC  $1325 auction.
1993 22 g silver invention & discovery NGC PF 70  $610 auction.
1994 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69  $227.99 auction.
1994 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69  $264.99 auction.
1994 bimetallic proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1543 auction.
1994 silver and gold proof unicorn 4 coin set NGC PF 69 UC  $2695 auction.
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC  $945.90 auction.
1995 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC  $760 auction. Has spots.
1995 1 oz silver small twig large date panda NGC MS 69  $788 auction.
1995 1/2 oz silver large date panda PCGS MS 69  $70.50 auction.
1995 1/2 oz silver large date panda PCGS MS 69  $96 auction.
1997 1 oz silver goddess Mazu NGC MS 69  $157.50 auction.
1997 1 oz silver minority culture 4 coin set NGC PF 69 UC  $1250 Buy-It-Now.
1997 1 oz silver unicorn NGC MS 69  $169.38 auction.
1997 1/2 oz silver Hong Kong expo panda PCGS MS 69  $289.95 Buy-It-Now.
1997 5 g silver WWF panda NGC PF 69 UC  $199.99 offer.
1998 1 oz silver goddess Mazu NGC MS 69  $177.50 auction.
1998 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69  $561.15 auction.
1998 1/10 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69  $1440 auction.
1998 1/2 oz silver Hong Kong expo panda NGC MS 69  $138.50 auction.
1998 1/2 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69  $121.42 auction.
2000 1 oz silver frosted panda NGC MS 69  $596 auction.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69  $180 offer.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70  $949.99 Buy-It-Now.
2004 - 2011 1 oz gold panda 8 coins set NGC MS 69  $6780 Buy-It-Now.
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69  $227.51 auction.
2006 1 oz silver bank of Beijing panda NGC MS 69  $123.50 auction.
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70  $458 offer.
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary set panda NGC PF 69 UC  $1276 auction.
2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70  $370 Buy-It-Now.
« Last Edit: 2011 Jul 17, 01:35:29 pm by tamo42 » Logged

Neal McSpadden
Honest Silver and Gold, LP - Earn 3% a Month By Turning Silver and Gold into Cash Flow
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:01:55 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:02:05 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums



The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:02:14 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts



Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Hint: Once you see the first draft, click the "NOTIFY" button for the draft. When my draft is almost ready for publishing, I break up the post into replies that follow the first post of the draft. You'll get a notification that a reply has been posted, and that will tell you the draft is almost done. A near-finished draft with the replies will contain more, better info than the first draft notification, so that's the good info you want to see.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:02:23 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment



I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.
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The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:02:31 pm »

NCS conserved certificates?



What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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Honest Silver and Gold, LP - Earn 3% a Month By Turning Silver and Gold into Cash Flow
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jul 17, 01:15:36 pm »

Recommended reading



Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* For those new to the modern Chinese coin market (By Batman)
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Black Swans, Fake Chinese coins, badon, & ebay! (By r3globe)
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor
* Why You Should Collect (or Invest) in Gold Panda Fractional BUs (By Batman)

Here's some handy websites for basic coin facts like mintages:

* Modern China Coins Data sorted by series
* china-mint.info Data sorted by year
* china-mint.info silver actual mintages
* china-mint.info gold actual mintages
* Chinese Coin Forum
* The Coin Compendium is coming!

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.
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Neal McSpadden
Honest Silver and Gold, LP - Earn 3% a Month By Turning Silver and Gold into Cash Flow
The Primal Prepper - my blog about preparing for the worst while living the best
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