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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #66  (Read 915 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jun 19, 02:04:47 PM »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

The supply of 1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth coins seems to be starting to dry up. Most of the coins available are ungraded, while the graded coins are experiencing rising prices. The notable exception is the most common clear claw variety, which has sold for as little as $1400 to $1500 lately. That is a dirt cheap price for a coin with an estimated mintage and 69 grade population of 900 or less, not including possibly large losses due to melting and damage. As a guess, I would say that perhaps at least 20% of the potential investment grade god of war & wealth coins are either lost completely, or damaged.

The god of war & wealth super clouded claw has been one of the rising stars of the slowdown, with 69 grade specimens fetching record prices with each sale. There are no known stocks of these coins out there that I have been able to locate. Mintage rarity beats grade rarity, at least at first, so the super clouded claw is not surprisingly rising in price the fastest, with an estimated 69 grade population of about 180.

The stocks of god of war & wealth that have been supplying the market lately were all clear claw and clouded claw varieties. Although the estimated mintage numbers for both the clear claw and clouded claw is very close, with the clouded claw being only slightly rarer, in a 69 grade the clouded claw MAY be rarer than the super clouded claw! The remaining ungraded stocks of these coins coming to the market are the coins that didn't get sent in for grading, for whatever reason, usually because they probably wouldn't earn a 69 grade.

With the plentiful supply, some sellers have simply chosen to sell the coins ungraded, instead of incurring the expense of grading. But, with prices rising for the top investment-grade specimens, that may change. Prices for ungraded coins sank to $900 or so about a month ago, but now it's back up to around $1300. A 69 grade clear claw selling for $1400 to $1500 is too cheap, and an excellent buy, especially considering it sold several times for $2000 to $2200 when before the slowdown.

Clouded claw 69 grade specimens are a bargain as long as they're cheaper than the super clouded claw specimens that have been selling for over $5000 lately. Even though mintage rarity beats grade rarity at first, later the grade rarity will matter, and the clouded claw may turn out to be the rarest, key coin in a 69 grade. If that happens, you can expect to make good profits on clouded claw coins in 69 grades.

It will be interesting to watch, to see whether the clouded or super clouded claw is the rarest in 69 grade. Early data said the clouded claw was the rarest, and so far that still seems to be true, with several supers coming to market because of high prices, but not so many cloudeds. We'll see!

Oh yeah, buy up the lunars. They are plentiful right now, with most dates available. You won't regret it! They're warm, and getting hot very fast as the 2012 year of the dragon approaches. LUNARS!!!
« Last Edit: 2011 Jun 19, 06:09:17 PM by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:09:27 PM »

Table of contents

Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Coins sold from the previous list
* Recommended reading
* My choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Jun 19, 06:35:35 PM by badon » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:09:36 PM »

Opera web browser

I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:09:53 PM »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #65 article

Coins from problem sellers are selling much less frequently than before I started noting them. It has the positive effect of moving the money to the best sellers, and rewarding them for ensuring their customers are satisfied with the coins they receive. This is good news for the market, because it means more people are going to have the good experience that they expect. Happy buyers are return buyers, and that keeps the market strong, and prices stable, for all of us.

1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC sold for $495 Buy-It-Now, which is about half of what it normally sells for. Good job, lucky buyer!

1998 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69 sold for $700 best offer, which is a very nice price for a popular and rare coin.

1988 15 g silver lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC sold for $898 offer, which is a very strong price.

2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 sold cheaply for $282 auction.

Two 2009 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 coins sold for $223.05 at auction, while the same coin in NGC sold for $285 at auction. That's almost a $62 premium for the NGC coins. I guess it is because the NGC coins are more likely to have been conserved, and because the holders are better sealed to keep polluted air from discoloring the coins over time. This trend of preference for NGC coins is getting stronger by the day, especially for silver. China's polluted air requires that a coin be well-sealed in an NGC holder, or it will accumulate residue deposits from the air.

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC sold for $220 at auction, which is a little more than half of what they normally sell for. Another one sold at auction for $256, which was also a great bargain. Good job to the lucky buyers that got these coins so cheap!

1995 and 1996 1 oz silver proof pandas have come back strongly in price, with both selling around $850 to $950, after previously dipping as low as around $500 to $600.

1986 15 g silver lunar tiger NGC PF 69 UC sold for $811.12 at auction. This is a heavy-duty price for a coin that used to be plentifully available at around $40 to $60 a few years ago. The high price on this coin tells me the lunar market is heating up.

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 sold for $110 at auction. This normally sells for $140 to $150+, even during the slowdown. Good job to whoever got this bargain.

1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC sold for $485.01 at auction. That's a nice, cheap price for the lucky buyer. The same coin sold for $550 from a different, problem seller!

1997 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC sold for $456 at auction. These are harder to find in 69 grade than the other dates for some reason. They were not handled well by the mint. This is a strong price for a coin that used to sell just a month ago for $200 to $300.



1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $495 Buy-It-Now.
1988 1/3 oz gold Chinese historical figures Zhao Kuangyin NGC PF 69 UC $1586.23 auction.
1997 1/2 oz WWF panda NGC PF 69 UC $73 auction.
1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 68 $4999 Buy-It-Now.
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $349.99 X 2 Buy-It-Now.
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $449.99 X 2 Buy-It-Now.
1992 22 g silver invention & discovery compass NGC PF 69 UC $211.50 auction. Problem seller.
1993 22 g silver invention & discovery definition of zero NGC PF 69 UC $242.50 auction. Problem seller.
1993 22 g silver invention & discovery umbrella NGC PF 69 UC $242.50 auction. Problem seller.
1994 22 g silver invention & discovery tuned bells NGC PF 69 UC $310 auction. Problem seller.
1994 22 g silver invention & discovery water pump NGC PF 69 UC $310 auction. Problem seller.
1993 22 g silver invention & discovery terracotta army NGC PF 69 UC $324.09 auction. Problem seller.
1987 1/4 oz gold mazu NGC PF 69 UC $1188 Buy-It-Now.
2004 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $525 auction. Problem seller.
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $501 auction. Problem seller.
2006 1 oz silver scallop flower dog NGC PF 69 UC $270 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $270 auction.
1987 1 oz gold New York WTC twin towers expo panda NGC PF 69 UC $3950 auction.
1990 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $743 auction.
1989 1/10 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM $350 Buy-It-Now.
1998 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69 $700 best offer.
1997 2/3 oz silver scallop flower lunar ox NGC PF 69 UC $770 best offer.
2007 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $455 auction.
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $407 auction.
1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC MS 69 $245 Buy-It-Now.
1998 2/3 oz silver scallop flower tiger NCS NGC PF 69 UC $750 Buy-It-Now.
1996 2/3 oz silver scallup flower rat NCS NGC PF 69 UC $850 Buy-It-Now.
2000 1 oz silver mirror panda PCGS MS 69 $2025 auction.
1997 1 oz silver Shanghai expo panda NGC MS 69 $275 Buy-It-Now.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $223.50 auction.
1987 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM $549.99 auction.
1994 1/20, 1/10, 1/4 oz gold proof unicorn 3 coin set NGC PF 69 UC $2650 Buy-It-Now.
1999 1 oz silver large date serif 1 NGC MS 69 $1075 offer.
1990 22 g silver bronze age leopard NGC PF 69 UC $688 Buy-It-Now.
1988 15 g silver lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC $898 offer.
1997 1 oz silver sino thai friendship NGC PF 70 UC $498 auction.
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $515 auction.
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $282 auction.
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $346 auction.
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $475 auction.
2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $329.66 auction.
2008 1 kg silver proof panda NGC PF 70 UC $4999.99 Buy-It-Now.
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70 $335 auction.
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70 $300 offer.
2009 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 $223.05 auction.
2009 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70  $223.05 auction.
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $285 auction.
1987 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC $830 auction.
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $220 auction.
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $256 auction.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $330.01 auction.
1992 1 oz silver proof 2 frosted leaf clump panda NGC PF 69 UC $461.78
1994 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM $1898 Buy-It-Now.
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $913.50 auction.
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $925 auction.
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $850 auction.
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $900 auction.
2004 1 kg silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $8500 offer.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $221 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $260.74 auction.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $299.99 Buy-It-Now.
1987 5 oz silver Hong Kong expo panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC $1888 Buy-It-Now.
1991 1 oz silver Munich panda NGC PF 69 UC $1275 auction.
1998 1/2 oz Hong Kong expo panda NGC MS 69 $115 auction.
2005 1 oz silver Beijing expo panda NGC MS 69 $203.07 auction.
2010 1 oz silver 90th anniversary Shanghai mint panda NGC MS 69 $318 auction.
1986 15 g silver lunar tiger NGC PF 69 UC $811.12 auction.
2008 1 oz silver scallop flower lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC $203.53 auction.
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 $110 auction.
1993 1 oz silver invention & discovery fu, lu, shu NGC MS 69 $415 offer. Problem seller.
1993 1 oz silver proof peacock NGC PF 69 UC $995 Buy-It-Now.
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $485.01 auction.
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $550 Buy-It-Now. Problem seller.
1997 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $456 auction.
2008 1 kg silver Beijing olympics NGC PF 69 UC $2186.05 auction.
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:10:02 PM »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:10:13 PM »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums

The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:10:21 PM »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts

Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:10:30 PM »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment

I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.

NCS conserved certificates?

What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:10:46 PM »

Recommended reading

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* For those new to the modern Chinese coin market (By Batman)
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Black Swans, Fake Chinese coins, badon, & ebay! (By r3globe)
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor

Here's some handy websites for basic coin facts like mintages:

* Modern China Coins Data sorted by series
* china-mint.info Data sorted by year
* china-mint.info silver actual mintages
* china-mint.info gold actual mintages
* Chinese Coin Forum
* The Coin Compendium is coming!

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jun 19, 06:11:38 PM »

My choices

* Silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar coins, especially the dragons
* All other lunar coins
* Dragon themed coin
* 1989 3.3 oz silver god of war & wealth clear claw, when selling too cheaply in a 69 grade.
* Coins in a 70 grade
* 1998 1 oz silver large date pandas
* 2001 D 1 oz silver pandas
* Platinum pandas.
* 2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary proof pandas
* Unrecognized proof varieties, like 1992 leaf clump and 1995 rim varieties.
* All other unrecognized varieties, especially from the Chinese historical figures series
* All expo coins, including coins that do not have pandas on them
* Unicorns, especially the NCS conserved ones, because they're not going to stop rising in value until people can't afford them anymore - that usually means $5000+
* Painting, literature, and other kinds art-themed coins
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