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Author Topic: Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #65  (Read 9314 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:03:01 pm »



The article is broken up into separate posts - The coin investments list is at the end of the article

Previously to this week, the slowdown was not much like a slowdown. Prices were strong and supply was good, but with so many people taking vacations, you could still sometimes get a bargain at auction. Now, the supply has slowed down too, and that changes things. The same buyers are competing for fewer coins, so auctions aren't going as cheap as they were. Also, sellers that aren't on vacations have been dropping their prices to earn enough sales during the peak of the slowdown to fund their inventory purchases, since they're buying bargains too, just like you are.

You may find the best bargains in the Buy-It-Now listings, going forward from here. This is the peak of the slowdown, which means that this is as good as it is going to get for bargains. Sellers will continue to list coins, but when they take vacations, they won't notice that prices have risen, leaving their underpriced coins vulnerable to a quick grab.

When sellers get back from vacations, they may sit down to list coins at the old prices they remembered from before they left for their vacation. So, keep checking for newly listed coins that aren't keep up with price increases.

The bad thing about the peak of the slowndown is that it's the peak of the slowdown. The good thing about the peak of the slowdown, is that it's the peak of the slowdown. The market is at it's worst, but it is also getting better at the same time. It's tougher times for sellers so they do more buying than selling. It's good times for buyers, IF you can find coins for sale, and if you don't have to sell coins to raise money for more buying!

June and July are the slowest months, but things start picking up during these months too. Late July is when I think we'll see some very noticeable increases in strength of the market, as we approach the August Hong Kong auction dates.

I have added a section that mentions problem sellers so people using this list will know if a seller they're interested in buying from is one that is likely to leave them unhappy. I feel compelled to do this, since removing them from my list entirely is not what people want, while at the same time, I feel responsible for recommending coins from sellers that will mistreat their customers.

This list is the best resource available for people who are completely new to buying modern Chinese coins, so I feel it is important to make buyers aware of where the danger zones might be, while still making the coins available to more experience buyers who are used to handling problems from sellers that don't make customer satisfaction a high priority.

I have found that the fastest web browser for loading these pages of coins is the Opera web browser. With other browsers, my fastest quad core computer slows down a lot on just one page. With Opera, I can load the whole thing up on my slowest computer, no problem. Get it now:

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/

There's also a handy "portable" version that does not require installation:

http://www.opera-usb.com/operausben.htm

Click on "Mainpage" to find versions in other languages besides English.
« Last Edit: 2011 Jun 09, 03:33:08 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:03:56 pm »

Table of contents

Not everything is in the table of contents, but all the important stuff is here.

* Recommended reading
* My choices
* Problem sellers
* NCS conserved
* 70 grade coins
* Proof pandas
* BU pandas
* Investment grade 1/2 oz silver pandas
* Investment grade large date and small date pandas
* Platinum and palladium pandas
* Other pandas and expo coins
* Lunar coins
* Other investment grade coins
* Helpful searches
« Last Edit: 2011 Jun 09, 03:37:47 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:04:12 pm »

Coins sold from the Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #64 article

1992 gold proof panda 5 coin set PCGS PR 68 DCAM sold for $18,888.88 in a best offer. That's a big price for coins in a 68 grade, which shows that 68 grade coins are becoming "investment grade" for rare coins like this. The mintage is only 806.

2001 D and 2002 1 oz silver pandas have risen to the same price level, but the 2001 D remains underpriced relative to the 2002, because it is rarer, even though it is currently selling for about the same price.

The supply of 2007 proof pandas has diminished again, and prices have gone up to about $145 for silver in a 70 grade. That's still a very good price for a coin that's almost as rare as the 1989 1 oz silver proof panda that sells for 3 times as much.

1983 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC sold for $7900 at auction. This is the first one we've seen at auction in a long, long time. It will probably be the first silver proof panda to reach the $10,000 level, and this auction shows that it's almost there - during the peak of the slowdown! I would not be surprised to see it pass $10,000 by some time early next year, assuming one comes available by then.

1996 1/20 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC startet out as $599.99 Buy-It-Now, but then went to auction where it sold for $728.01.

The 1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship coins are selling for steadily more at auction than in Buy-It-Now listings. It appears Buy-It-Now's are where the bargains are at.

1990 2 oz silver proof dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC sold for $1800 auction. It has been frequently offered at around $1400 in Buy-It-Now listings.




1985 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $2250 best offer.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $245.01 best offer.
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary 1993 panda NGC PF 70 UC $145 Buy-It-Now.
1986 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $575.55 auction.
1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $406 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 $300 Buy-It-Now.
1997 1 oz silver sino thai friendship NGC PF 70 UC $498 auction.
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $474.69 auction.
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 $355 auction.
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary 1989 panda NGC PF 70 UC  $145 auction.
2007 1/25 oz gold proof 25th anniversary 2004 panda NGC PF 70 UC $197.50 auction.
1983 27 g silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $7900 auction.
1987 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $539 auction.
1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $406 auction.
1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $222.50 auction.
1986 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $575.55 auction.
1986 1 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $1857 auction.
1987 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $1050 auction.
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC $540 best offer.
1992 gold proof panda 5 coin set PCGS PR 68 DCAM $18,888.88 best offer.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $277.67 auction.
2001 D 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $287 auction.
2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 $285 auction.
1987 S 1 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC $4668 auction.
1994 1/10 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC $1275 Buy-It-Now.
1996 1/20 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC $728.01 auction.
1987 5 oz silver Hong King expo panda NGC PF 69 UC $2000 Buy-It-Now.
1991 25 yuan bimetallic Hong Kong expo panda NCS NGC PF 69 UC $2850 Buy-It-Now.
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 $149.95 Buy-It-Now.
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 $157.50 auction.
1989 1/3 oz gold children's fund NGC PF 69 UC $1830 auction.
1989 1/3 oz Chinese historical figures Genghis Khan NGC PF 69 UC $1456 auction.
1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC MS 69 $273 auction.
1990 2 oz silver proof dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC $1800 auction.
1995 1/4 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $1645 auction.
1995 1/2 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC $5530 auction.
1997 1 oz silver goddess mazu NGC MS 69 $139.50 auction.
1997 1 oz silver auspicious matters NGC MS 69 $123.50 auction.
1998 27 g silver WWF clouded leopard NGC PF 69 UC $196.50 auction.
2009 1 oz silver PRC 60th anniversary NGC PF 69 UC $200 auction.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:04:29 pm »

Chinese coins are better





* Fidelity Overseas Fund (FOSFX)
* NASDAQ Average
* Brazilian Stock Index (BVSP)
* Crude Oil
* Gold
* Silver
* Chinese coins

This information comes from http://www.pandacollector.com/
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:04:39 pm »

Sell your coins on LBC or CCF forums

The Chinese coin marketplace on LBC is a topic started by groovemachine for selling coins amongst LBC members. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be getting interesting, so I figured I would mention it here. Ebay is by far the best place to buy and sell coins, but sometimes it's interesting to see what's been posted over there.

There's also a similar place at the CCF
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:05:00 pm »

Register, read replies, get NOTIFICATIONS, access drafts

Always come back to check the replies on these articles. That's where most of the good stuff is! Register on the forums and click the "NOTIFY" button on this article to receive email notifications of new replies that may make some easy money for the first person to read it. Many of the best coins only last for a few minutes or seconds before somebody grabs them. If you get notified of replies, you'll be able to see anything new that I list right when I list it. You'll also stay informed of the hot topics, and see what other people are talking about buying.

Also, once you're registered on the forums, you can access the drafts forum where I post stuff I'm working on. Having access to my drafts lets you see the good stuff before anybody else - sometimes only minutes before, and sometimes more than a week before! You'll have valuable advanced information before the rest of the market gets it! Of course, you MUST click on the "NOTIFY" button for the drafts forum if you want to receive an instant notification that a draft has been posted.

Finally, you'll want to stay up-to-date on my postings, so click the "NOTIFY" button on my blog forum. You may want to take a look there from time to time, especially to read my older postings that are packed with valuable money-making information. If you're wondering if I'm worth listening to, you can see a list of my articles sorted by date. Check out the older ones to see my track record at predicting the markets. It's impressive, if I do say so myself. No one on the planet as a track record like mine. You can trust my predictions, they're always right!
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:05:11 pm »

NCS and NGC need to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment

I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.

NCS conserved certificates?

What if NCS started selling certificates that said that a coin had been conserved? Would you want one for each of your coins, so you could prove to a buyer that your coins are professionally conserved? It's been impossible so far to persuade NCS and NGC to start labeling conserved coins. But, they may be willing to produce certificates, especially if it earns them a little extra money.

Prices earned by sellers have been significantly better for the coins they advertise as NCS conserved. When buyers have a choice between 2 coins, one that's cheaper, but not NCS conserved, and one that's significantly more expensive, but has been NCS conserved, the buyers almost always choose the NCS coins first. Once those are gone, then the unconserved coins start selling again.

Many of the sellers are able to provide paperwork to show that a coin has been conserved, and the seller's reputation leads to buyers trusting sellers when they say the coins are conserved. But what about the buyer when it comes time to sell? It would be very helpful if they had a certificate from NCS that says for certain that a coin has been conserved. It would add value to the coins when they initially sell from a dealer, and it will also make it easier for the buyer to sell later too.

Further down in this article is Craig Fiumara's contact information at NCS. It would be helpful to make this possibility a reality if you told him you'd like to buy conservation certificates for your coins.
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:05:44 pm »

Recommended reading

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* For those new to the modern Chinese coin market (By Batman)
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Black Swans, Fake Chinese coins, badon, & ebay! (By r3globe)
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.
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LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:05:58 pm »

My choices

* 1998 1 oz silver large date pandas
* 2001 D 1 oz silver pandas
* Platinum pandas.
* 2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary proof pandas
* Silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar coins, especially the dragons
* All other lunar coins
* Dragon themed coins
* 1992 1 oz silver proof panda varieties
* Gold-gilded expo pandas
* Other expo coins
* Unicorns, especially the NCS conserved ones, because they're not going to stop rising in value until people can't afford them anymore - that usually means $5000+
* Coins in a 70 grade
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jun 09, 03:06:35 pm »

Problem sellers

I have been asked not to completely remove problem sellers from my list. These sellers are ones that have a longstanding pattern of problems. They frequently have nice coins, so their coins may sometimes still be included in this list, but this warning is here to tell you that you may regret buying from them eventually. This is my little disclaimer, so I can distance myself from them if you have problems buying one of their coins in my list.

* beautyhere_2008

Seller does not disclose flaws, and does not accept returns. Coins frequently have white spots of death that aren't clearly visible in photos.

* PandaAmerica

Seller has had a monopoly in the United States since 1982. Almost all the Chinese coins in America have to pass through them first. I hear frequent complaints of all types about this seller. The seller reminds customers how lucky they are to be allowed to buy from their monopoly.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
Coin, medal, whatever!
Coin storage advice.
FreeArc is amazing.
User contributions for Badon - Coin Compendium
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