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Author Topic: Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #48 - News affects the market  (Read 1749 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Feb 10, 06:00:25 pm »



Scroll WAY down to see the recommendations and skip the commentary!

There were 3 articles by tamo42 that have been informing us of what's been happening to the markets as a whole:

* Market Commentary - Feb 09, 2011 - Market Takes a Breather
* RUMOR: Saudi King is Dead
* Market Commentary - Feb 10, 2010 - Markets Whipsawed by News

If you read those in order, you get a feel for the sequence of events that have been playing out right now. They have been affecting the coin market too, even the "badon's article" market, as small as it is compared to the bigger markets.

In short, you can describe the market as uncertain. Is it going up? Is it going down? Is it going to collapse? Is it going to boom? People are running back and forth, and wavering between all the possibilities, and the positioning that would be most advantageous to them if they guess correctly. I'm not uncertain at all, however. I know where the market is going over the long term, and I'm committed to riding it out despite the indecision of people who don't see the big picture. I'm playing The chess game of rich vs. poor, and I'm buying up cheap coins when they come to the market. Even if I lose money in the short term, which people are fearing but not really experiencing, I will keep buying.

The answer to the question of How high will the Chinese coin market go? is simply this: Much, much higher. 10,000% higher is my ballpark minimum guess, but it could much higher than that. I don't know exactly how high it will go, and I'm not concerned about that right now, you shouldn't be either. In comments to my draft, posted below by r3globe, I was asked about the possibility of a bubble in the Chinese coin market. These questions have been asked before, but they suddenly stopped for a while, because I think most people had learned enough about it themselves to realize that the market is really just getting going, fresh and new.

To hear the question again, is a sign of doubts creeping in, probably stemming from the uncertain recent news. The effect on the coin market isn't as pronounced as on other markets though, which is a good sign that the coin market is doing its own thing, on its own terms.

So, in summary, there's lots of shifty news that doesn't really point in any single direction, and the coin market is showing some hesitancy as well. But, overall, the news doesn't matter much. Yes, things around the world are bad, and going to get worse. The good news can safely be ignored. The overall effect this will have is to continue to drive the precious metals and coin markets further upwards.

My choices

My top choice is still the 2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary pandas, especially the one with a 70 grade in the list. There's a few new sets available that are more expensive than the previous batch of cheap ones, but still quite a bargain since they're under $1000. Beware the set of 69 graded coins that are on ebay right now. They're not on my list, and that means you probably shouldn't buy it. It has the White Spots of Death, and is basically just scrap metal now. More about those at the bottom of the section about the 2007 sets.

Next, I'd probably raid the small size coins from the list that are still affordable. Those are appearing much less frequently. Anything with a dragon and/or horse on them is hot too. Oh yeah, the dragon and horse coin finally made the list, and I want one!

Unicorns are heating up again, if you don't have one yet, you better get one!

If you have questions about investing in any of these coins, please ask. If you find a coin that seems like it should be listed here, but isn't, please tell me about it. I frequently wait to list a coin here until I've had time to do the proper research on it that's needed for me to give you the basic facts on each coin. If you'd like to see info faster on a particular coin, I can make it a higher priority for you. I've noticed people don't like asking questions, because they don't want anyone else to know they're thinking of buying a particular coin. People don't want to talk about the coins they're interested in due to "coin snatchers" grabbing them. Competition for the investment-grade coins listed in these articles is fierce!

NCS and NGC refuse to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment

I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.

Recommended reading

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Pricepedia modern Chinese coin price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code

$68.88 Buy-It-Now.

In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you send a message to the author mentioning LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.



Perfect 70 coins



1986 1/20 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70

It's hard to get a 70 grade out of these older pandas. NGC only has one with a 70 grade, and the seller says there's only one at PCGS with a 70 grade too. About 1 in 30 sent in for grading at NGC earns a 70 grade. That makes these rare, and since it's on auction, you might be able to get it for a cheap price. If you can get it for $300 to $500, I'd say you have a good bargain.

2007 1/25 oz gold 2004 25th anniversary panda NGC PF 70 UC

$139.99 Buy-It-Now.

2007 1/4 oz silver 2004 25th anniversary panda NGC PF 70 UC

Mintage 30,000. Only about 1 in 4 coins from this set earn a 70 grade. This is one of my top picks, and it's in the highest grade available. The last 3 coins from this set were in lower 69 grades, and they sold for $94, $94, and $112.50. Coins in a 70 grade can be worth anywhere from 50% more to 900% more than the same coin in a 69 grade. Given that this coin is roughly 4 times rarer than the same coin in a 69 grade, I would not pay more than about $400 for it. I think it will actually sell for about $180 to $300. The short term potential value of the 69 versions will probably be a bit less than the 1989 1 oz silver proof panda, which currently sells for around $250. When that price level is reached, these 70 coins ought to be worth somewhere around $500 to $1000. If you can get this coin for under $250, I'd say you have a good bargain. Of the coins on this list, few can have sensible estimate numbers put on them to demonstrate their potential future value, like this coin.



Proof pandas



All the early proof pandas are what I like to call $10,000 coins, because I firmly believe within the next decade, you will have to pay $10k+ to obtain one. coins here meet at least 4 of the 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment. The only one they may not meet is the one about conservation, which is less important as long as the coin looks good despite its age, and not very important at all for gold, platinum, and palladium.

If any of the silver coins you buy have white spots when you receive them, you should probably return it for a refund. The white spots may be correctable through conservation, but that's the seller's problem, not yours.

Now that the issue of which silver proof panda coin is the rarest seems to have been settled, the 1994 and the 1996 have increased rapidly in value. However, it turns out that all three of the top coins - the 1994, 1995, and the 1996 - have similarly small actual mintages. There's no one coin that is dramatically rarer than any of the others. The information I have says that all of them have mintages of around 7000 to 8000 coins. So, buy them all up whenever you can, as your cash holdings allow.

1986 gold proof panda 5 coin set NGC PF 69 UC

$7899 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 10,000.

1987 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1050 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 31,000.

NEW 1989 1 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1500 auction starting price. Mintage 8000.

NEW 1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$250 auction starting price, $275 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$259 Buy-It-Now.

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$350 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$325 Buy-It-Now. Last one sold for $309. Prices are increasing.

1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$439 Buy-It-Now.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$529 Buy-It-Now.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$450 Buy-It-Now.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$459 Buy-It-Now. Price increased from $449.

The official mintage for the 1992 coins is 20,000 but is probably lower, as is often the case for early coins. Prices have been steadily increasing, and this one has sold for $278 and $399 for a 69 specimen, and up to a whopping $738 for a damaged, ungraded coin. The $738 price was ridiculous, but it's a clue as to how crazy people get sometimes. The damage on the $738 coin is a torch sloppily engraved into it by a private coin dealer in Germany when the coin was first released. 3000 of them were damaged by the torch engraving, and word hasn't quite made it to all the collectors in China that the torch isn't supposed to be there. The Chinese dealers seem to be making good money by not telling them too!

So, we know that 3000 of these coins were damaged right when they were released, and I suspect that the Chinese dealers may be getting greedy, and they could be carving their own little torches into the surviving coins to try to score a $700+ price tag on a damaged coin. That means that, in addition to probably having a lower mintage than the official figures suggest, we already know that at least 3000 coins have been damaged. That makes this coin a good investment, because it doesn't cost more than coins that weren't damaged on a large scale.

I would grab this coin before word spreads that the little torch coins are actually damaged coins, and pristine coins are much rarer than people have thought. Only 109 have been graded a 69, which is about half as many as expected - but the coin does not cost twice as much! This coin is underpriced, and a good investment. Buy them when you find them.

Update:

There were some discussions that led to questions about why the 1992 proof panda is cheaper than coins that should have higher mintages. Aside from the obvious possibility that the other coins actually have much lower mintages, there's other plausible explanations as well (no one knows for certain yet, but I think these are good guesses):

One explanation for the unnaturally cheaper price on the 1992 1 oz silver proof pandas could be that a lot of people paid big bucks for the torch version. Once they had that, they erroneously felt they had the key coin for that date, and so did not buy the normal, unaltered 1992 coin.

On top of that, once they read our research on this forum, and learned that the torch coin is actually a damaged coin, they may have developed a reflexive dislike for the 1992 coins after having lost a lot of money on the altered torch coins.

It still remains possible that the 1992 1 oz silver proof panda is actually rarer than coins that are currently selling for more, and that would make it a good investment that justifies its inclusion in my list.

Either way, until the truth is known for sure, it would be a good idea to make sure have at least one of them in your collection/portfolio (in investment-grade, without the torch!).

NEW 1993 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$3400 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 2500. The actual mintage may be lower, with one figure cited as only 2005 actually minted. Surviving investment-grade mintage is certainly lower. The days of cheap small-size proof pandas seem to be disappearing quickly. This coin has a very low mintage, and a high price. The best offer part of this tells me that the seller expects to sell it a bit cheaper. When was the last time you saw one? Be careful if you're thinking of making a low offer. This coin may seem expensive now, but just wait until later. This coin could easily double or triple in price up to $10,000 any time within just a few months. If you want this coin, you may prefer to just grab it instead of trying to shave a few dollars off of the price. Now that it's in this list, it's quite likely someone will grab it before the seller gets a chance to even consider your best offer. If you just grab it now, it will be yours.

1993 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$988 Buy-It-Now.

1993 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$3250 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 2005.

1994 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 UC

$1598 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 2500.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$899 auction starting price, $999 Buy-It-Now.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1099 Buy-It-Now.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1099.99 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$749 Buy-It-Now.

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$999 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$822.22 Buy-It-Now. We haven't seen a price this good for a while. If you don't have one of these yet, here you go. The price seems almost too good to be true. When you receive this, look for undisclosed white spots on the coins. If you find any, you should return the set for a refund. White spots are the only kind that cannot be removed with conservation at NCS.

NEW 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$1199 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$800 auction starting price.

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$1995 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 30,000.

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$1280 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 30,000.

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$1280 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 30,000.

Search for 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary pandas

As a policy, I don't list coins that are not graded and authenticated by NGC or PCGS. However, this deal is too good to pass up, so I'm making an exception for it. I've seen the 2007 1/4 proof pandas sell for as cheaply as around $15 lately, but they're as rare as the other pandas selling for hundreds of dollars. There are many original sets of all 25 of the 2007 proof panda coins available on ebay right now. The lowest priced ones are about $900, and the highest priced ones are about $1300. At the highest price, that translates to only about $52 per coin! Compare that to the 1989 1 oz silver proof panda that has a similar mintage, and sells for $199 in a 69 grade.

Granted, almost none of these are graded. You'll have to know what you're doing to buy these, but I think you should be able to double your money on them easily once word gets out that you can still buy proof silver pandas for about the same price as an ungraded 2010 non-proof panda. Think it over - 2010 boring panda with a mintage of 3 million for $50, or a 2007 proof panda with a mintage 30,000 for $50. Don't be a fool, buy them up before sellers realize what they've got.

But, if you get coins that have white spots on them, return them. Here's an example of a set of coins that have white spots on them:

DO NOT BUY THIS SET - 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set - DO NOT BUY THIS SET

The seller is advertising them with the phrases "Great Look and Grade!" and "Each coin has also been graded at PF69 by NGC.". When I asked the seller about the problems his coins had, he said "They are NGC MS69" and only have a "minor imperfection". Clearly this seller is not willing to tell buyers the truth about the low quality of his coins. I don't normally go out of my way to shoot down someone's coins they're selling, but I've made an exception in this case because it's so important for my readers to see an example of what bad coins look like, even if they're graded.



Platinum and palladium pandas



1990 1/2 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC

$3995 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 2500.

1990 1 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC

$10,750 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 1300. The last one sold at auction for close to the asking price for this coin. It's been getting talked about quite a lot. Platinum is getting popular, it seems.



BU pandas



NEW 1995 1/20 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69

$222 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 97,910. This came in large and small date varieties. I suspect very few of these survived in investment grade due to their popular usage in jewelry. The low price makes them an attractive, speculative investment. The large date is rarer than this one, probably because fewer were minted, and because the larger date was easier to see when mounted in jewelry. So, more of these small date coins survive, but I still think they may be rarer than their price reflects, and that makes them potentially a good investment if that turns out to be true.

2001 D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69

$150 auction starting price, $165 Buy-It-Now. This is the "D" version, meant for domestic distribution in China. These are hard to find, and you should have one in your collection in case it turns out they're rarer than people have realized. They don't appear for sale very often, and the price is pretty good.

NEW 2002 1/20 oz gold panda NGC MS 69

$222 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 400,000. Much fewer were probably actually minted, because the design was the same as the 2001 coins, which made them unpopular when they first came out. In addition, many were probably damaged or destroyed through usage in jewelry, since the beautiful design and small size made these coins perfect for that use when collector interest was weak. Only 23 of these coins received an investment-grade of 69 or 70, while the 1 oz size has 101 coins in a 69 or 70 grade. That could be because fewer of these were submitted for grading, or  because fewer of them have survived in good enough condition to be worth the cost of grading. I suspect both factors are involved.

NEW 2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

NEW 2002 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

$95 auction starting price, $105 Buy-It-Now.

2002 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 69

$2250 Buy-It-Now. These have the same design as the 2001 pandas. Because of that, they weren't popular, and fewer were made, and many were lost. You should have one in your collection. The seller says the estimated surviving number of specimens is only around 5000.

Investment-grade 1/2 oz silver pandas

These are moving upwards, so I decided to include them again. The items in the list are from an automatically generated search, so they're not necessarily recommendations. You'll have to find and purchase coins yourself, but I'll be happy to answer questions about them. There's too many to list individually - the search thingy above that shows the items doesn't show everything, so click the link above it to see all items that the search can find for you.



Large date and small date pandas



Investment grade large date and small date pandas

Pricing information is very immature for panda varieties so here's a search, not necessarily a list of recommendations, that shows you what I might have put in this article if there were more information available. Pricing is erratic, with no one quite sure what a fair price should be, not even the sellers themselves. That usually means everything is selling too cheap. Good luck, and get them while you can.



Lunar coins



1988 8 g gold lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC

$1000 auction starting price. Mintage 7600.

1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC

$600 auction starting price. Mintage 7500.

1989 1 oz gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC

$3000 auction starting price. Mintage 3000.

1999 1/2 oz gold lunar scallop plum blossom flower rabbit PCGS PR 69 DCAM

This coin is too expensive at $4300 - but it's the only one available. I posted about others that were available for half as much just a few days ago, but they're gone, so $4300 is your new price for those who weren't the lucky buyers of those other recommendations. This coin has a mintage of only 2300 coins, so I have no doubt you'll be able to sell it for $10k+ within a few years or sooner, though I do not recommend planning on selling it at that price because it could go FAR higher. You "overpay" now for a good coin just to get it, and then make your profits later. It's frustrating this price is so dramatically higher than the last coins that sold, but you won't get good coins if you don't pay what you have to pay to get them.

In short, is $4300 an unfair price to pay for a coin that was selling for around $2500 to $3000 only one week ago? No, it is not unfair at all. Expensive, yes, but if you have the cash, buy this coin. It will only cost you more later.

NEW 2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar dog NGC PF 69 UC

$275 auction starting price, $315 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 80,000.

NEW 2008 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar rat NGC PF 69 UC

$250 auction starting price. Mintage 60,000.



Other investment grade coins



1979 1/2 oz silver matte year of the child NGC MS 69

This is a great coin being offered at a fair price. Cheapskates keep offering low-ball prices, but this coin is worth every penny of the $15,000 asking price. The last coins sold for increasingly high values of $7000 to almost $10,000 recently, and none of them were graded. This coin has a high 69 grade, a low mintage, and is extremely popular. Don't be a cheapskate, pay the full asking price and grab it before someone else does. It is worth it.

1981 1 oz gold bronze age elephant NGC PF 69 UC

$9995 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 1000. An early, rare coin, that rarely appears for sale, let alone in an investment grade.

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69

$138 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 50,000 to 90,000 (sources vary). The last ones sold for $120, $89.88, and $100.

Question:

"What's the significance of 1986 CHINA S5Y SHIP EMPRESS OF CHINA (22.2g, not 24g as advertised) at $100 to 150? Its mintage is 75,000 so it's not that rare. Is there a cultural significance to it or what?"

Answer:

A few things are confusing about this coin: The weight, the mintage, the quality of the mintage, and the surviving population.

The COA for the coin says it's 26.6 grams, for example, while other sources claim a variety of other weights. I haven't actually weighed any of them yet though.  The information you have about the mintage and weight comes from the Krause catalog, which is known to have numerous errors that the authors are too lazy to fix, for decades at a time, from edition to edition, including simple spelling errors that spellcheck could fix instantly.

Mintage figures I've seen range from around 50,000 to 90,000. Regardless of what the actual mintage is, it's still arguably quite low. I have long suspected that these are rarer than people think they are, especially in high grades.

However, those are all just details that all take a backseat to popularity. The coin is not popular yet, but I think it has merely been overlooked because it wasn't intended for the Chinese market - the ship on the coin is American. The ship theme of the coin is what will make it popular, once it gets noticed.

There are a lot of oddball coins that don't fit in any specific category very well, because they weren't part of any sort of series. Having a recognizable theme makes it possible for an oddball coin to fit into a set, and become popular for the set. For example, China's maritime set was minted for only one year, with a very low mintage. It has become popular due to its low price relative to its rarity, and that popularity has spread to other coins with a ship theme. Some collectors consider dragon boats, and other ship coins to be part of their maritime set.

The quantity of coins that are almost always available for the 1986 coin leads me to believe that the mintage probably isn't terribly low. I think the rarity lies in grade rarity, since the coins are so frequently in poor condition, due to the lack of respect they received for seeming to not be rare.

If we go with the highest mintage estimate I can think of off the top of my head, at 90,000, then I would consider it to be a low mintage coin. I am speculating on this coin, since so little is known for certain about it, with much conflicting information.

I would not be an aggressive buyer of these coins, due to the uncertainties, but I would take bargains from time to time when they come available. The asking price for the coin I listed is $168, but I would put in an offer of $100, and see if the seller will take that. If not, I might wait a while to see if anything else turns up, and then possibly try another offer.

Either way, I think this coin is a $200+ coin in the near future, due it's under 100,000 mintage. It is included in my list specifically for people who cannot afford rarer coins, but still want something better than a $70 panda with a mintage of 300,000 to 600,000.

1988 1 oz gold san francisco expo dragon medal NGC PF 69 UC

$3999 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 1500. This is a gorgeous medal with a low mintage and one of the most beautiful dragon designs made. I think the price is a bit high on this coin/medal but it deserves a mention here, since they could take off at any time. The most important thing about this coin that earns it a spot on my list is that it's a 69. Only half of them graded so far have been able to get a 69 (14 out of 28 total). They were frequently mishandled, and good quality, hand-selected specimens rarely earn an investment-quality grade. None have earned a 70. Oh, and it has the Chinese lucky number 8 twice in the date, which increases its desirability.

1990 2 oz dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC

$22,000 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 2538. This is THE most popular modern Chinese coin. The price is many multiples of coins that are often as rare or rarer. This is the power of popularity. It is absolutely gorgeous, and difficult to obtain in a 69 grade. They were all damaged by mishandling at the mint. No 70 coins have been discovered, and people have been looking hard.

1992 2 oz silver dragon & horse NGC PF 69 UC

$1988.88 auction starting price. Mintage 6000. This is a stunningly beautiful coin, much like the dragon & phoenix coins. I think the price is a bit high, but with a mintage of only 6000, it will certainly end up being higher in the future. That makes it a good investment. I think this is the first one of these that has an investment-grade worthy of inclusion in my list.

NEW 1994 1/4 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC

Mintage 5100.

1995 1/10 oz gold proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC

$1995 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 5000. The Pricepedia says a raw, ungraded specimen of this coin is worth about $600. However, this is an investment-grade specimen of a coin with a low mintage that's not seen very often. Many of these were probably lost or damaged, especially due to usage in jewelry. With an official mintage of only 5000, and an actual mintage that is normally around half to one-tenth the planned mintages in 1995 - it could turn out that only a few of these still exist. I would make a wild guess that between 500 and 3000 of them exist in investment grade, depending on how many were lost. There are 21 of these graded by NGC, and only 15 have a 69 grade. None have received a 70 grade.

The $1995 asking price is high, no question about that but is it worth it? Well, I thought long and hard about including this in my list, and I decided against it in my previous lists because of the high price. But, I've changed my mind. Small size rare gold coins are hot right now, and the market is heating up again. Unicorns and peacocks are especially popular, and even more so now that the Pricepedia is covering them. You'll have to sit on this a while to break even I suspect, but I believe it is a good investment, and so it belongs in my list.

NEW 1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC

$379 Buy-It-Now.

1996 1 oz silver piedfort kuan yin NGC PF 69 UC

$950 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 5000. Price has been dropped to $550.

2004, 2005, 2006 1 oz silver beijing coin expo panda medal 3 coin set NGC PF 69 UC

$850 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 30,000. These are highlighted with gold plating for the expos at China's capital city of Beijing, and are likely to be popular, and thus a good investment. I think they're underpriced right now due to the popularity factor. They're rare, but not rare compared to their price, which makes them seem expensive.

2004 1 oz silver beijing expo panda NGC MS 69

$249 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 30,000. This is certified MS 69, but I think it should be a PF 69, since I think only proof coins were issued. These are likely to become popular because of their beauty from the gold plating, and the fact that it's a Chinese expo event.



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These are helpful searches for coins, not necessarily a list of recommendations, like the other items in this article. If you didn't see anything you like above, you may find coins on your own here that I have ignored or overlooked. I've included an ebay search widget to show you a sample of search results, when possible (they don't always work, so I leave them out).

I'm not going to be able to keep track of when stuff in these searches sell, so you'll have to let me know if you invest in something from these automated searches, so I can include it in the list of other coins that have sold. It would also be appreciated if you posted your coins in the LBC makes me rich thread. Thank you very much!

Search for Chinese coins in 69 grade

Search for Chinese coins in 70 grade

Search for all Chinese coins

Search for proof pandas

Search for panda coins of all types




The items above are not necessarily a list of recommendations. In an effort to help out our small business members, any ebay seller listing that links to any page at www.livebusinesschat.com will show up in the list above (only a few at a time, sorted by time remaining). The name "Live Business Chat" must be somewhere in the auction, preferably as part of the displayed link. To make it easy, just put the following line anywhere in your ebay listing:

<a href="http://www.livebusinesschat.com/">Live Business Chat</a>

You can use that same line to link to us from any other website, also.



Sold recommendations



Total recommendations sold: $166,486.95

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #47 article, total: $1123

1990, 1991, and 1992 coins are the sold items of the day. Funny how that comes right after the hoard of 1989 coins that were bought up just prior. Probably a temporary anomaly, but I don't think so. Overall, not an exciting set of sales, but the worldwide markets were slower today after a temporary rally in the U.S. Dollar. That really is only temporary. Prices have been increasing noticeably, and fewer coins are being listed. I'm hearing reports of sellers delisting their coins, or claiming to have "lost" it after someone purchases it. A few good coins have been getting listed though, but at higher prices.

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $309 Feb 09, 2011
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $399 Feb 09, 2011
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $415 Feb 09, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #46 article, total: $5604

What's up with the 1989 coins? For whatever reason, all the hottest coins are dated 1989. 1989 1 oz silver proof pandas continue to be bought up aggressively, with the cheaper coins disappearing quickly. Anything $299 and under has been getting bought up. The American expo medals are also still selling well, especially the 1989 1 oz silver with a mintage of only 4000.

1999 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 70 for $4550 Feb 08, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 DCAM for $255 Feb 08, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $299 Feb 07, 2011
1989 1 oz silver New York expo panda horse medal NGC PF 69 UC for $500 Feb 07, 2011 (private sale)

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #45 article, total: $4296.99

Sales are strong again, with many proof silver pandas being bought aggressively. Small size coins are selling quickly, or being removed from sale offerings, sometimes before the article gets published. Proof silver pandas were the star of the show, by far, but the other coins that sold went for very strong prices, especially coins with dragons and horses on them. 1989 1 oz silver proof pandas were on fire for some reason. Prices hit the $299 level, which I think is a new record for that coin. If not a new record, then at least it's back up to where it was before the slowdown started. Very impressive performance overall.

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $279 Feb 05, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $718.88 Feb 05, 2011
2007 1/25 oz gold 25th anniversary 2004 panda NGC PF 70 UC for $129.99 Feb 05, 2011
1988 1 oz silver piedfort lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $688 Feb 04, 2011
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $309 Feb 04, 2011
1989 1/4 oz gold new york expo panda horse medal NGC PF 69 UC for $873 Feb 04, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $260 Feb 04, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $299 Feb 04, 2011
1990 1 g gold proof dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC for $400 Feb 03, 2011
1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $340.12 Feb 03, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #44 article, total: $2686.72

Sales were strong for this article. Prices are still reduced from their recent peak, but they're climbing upward again. The star of the show was the 1988 1 oz gold san francisco expo dragon medal that sold for $3250. That's a nice price for a medal, and evidence that my article detailing why medals matter was correct.

1987 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $405 Feb 03, 2011
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $227.62 Feb 03, 2011
1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $340.12 Feb 03, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $680 Feb 03, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $330.98 Feb 03, 2011
1988 1 oz gold san francisco expo dragon medal NGC PF 69 UC for $3250 Feb 02, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #43 article, total: $928.99

1990 1/10 oz platinum proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $699 Feb 02, 2011
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 for $100 Feb 02, 2011
2007 1/25 oz gold 25th anniversary 2004 panda NGC PF 70 UC for $129.99 Feb 01, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #42 article, total: $1463.82

The 1990 dragon & phoenix coin achieved strong price that I believe is a new record. The coin was previously not considered rare, but now it is, and it earned almost $400! The 1997 unicorn was listed with a Buy-It-Now price of only $115, but greedy buyers decided to try to bid on it instead at its auction starting price of $99 to shave a few dollars off the price. In the end, they just had to pay more, as the coin almost reached $125 in auction. Pay the asking price, and get the coin! Don't be a cheapskate. The historical figures Beethoven coin was a disappointment at only $80. I think it is easily worth $100+, but The Market has spoken...I consider it a bargain. The 1986 empress of China coin sold at auction for almost $90, which I think is an excellent price, and shows some solid strength in the demand for that coin. Prices have been increasing for both raw and graded coins, with 69 and 70 graded coins selling for very profitable prices from a dealer perspective, and motivating them to submit more of them for grading. The 70 coins are the real stunners to watch for though, with MASSIVE premiums over the price of a 69.

1990 1 oz silver dragon & phoenix NGC PF 69 UC for $395 Feb 01, 2011
2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar dog NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Jan 31, 2011
2002 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $99 Jan 31, 2011
1997 1 oz silver unicorn NGC MS 69 for $124.49 Jan 31, 2011
1990 1 oz silver world historical figures Beethoven NGC PF 69 UC for $80 Jan 31, 2011
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 for $89.88 Jan 31, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $399.95 Jan 30, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #41 article, total: $2620.99 (surpassed $150,000 in coins sold from these lists)

2007 1/25 oz gold 25th anniversary 2004 panda NGC PF 70 UC for $129.99 Jan 30, 2011
1990 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $750 Jan 29, 2011
1984 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1741 Jan 29, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #40 article, total: $5665

1988 1 oz platinum lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $5500 Jan 26, 2011
2001 D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $165 Jan 25, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #39 article, total: $4254.23

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Jan 25, 2011
1987 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $631.23 Jan 24, 2011
1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1198 Jan 24, 2011
1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1298 Jan 24, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $699 Jan 24, 2011
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69 for $120 Jan 23, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #38 article, total: $2183.44

2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $151 Jan 23, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $740.45 Jan 23, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $610 Jan 23, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary 1997 proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $94 Jan 23, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary 2005 proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $94 Jan 23, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver 25th anniversary 2006 proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $112.50 Jan 23, 2011
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda PCGS MS 70 for $161.50 Jan 23, 2011
1992 15 g silver marco polo NGC PF 69 UC for $219.99 Jan 22, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #37 article, total: $4855

1992 15 g silver marco polo NGC PF 69 UC for $199 Jan 22, 2011
1992 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $499 Jan 22, 2011
1994 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $900 Jan 22, 2011
1996 1 oz silver unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $399 Jan 22, 2011
1994 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1598 Jan 21, 2011
1982 1/10 oz gold panda NGC MS 69 for $710 Jan 20, 2011
1988 1 oz silver proof dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $550 Jan 20, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #36 article, total: $8451.96

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Jan 20, 2011
2002 2/3 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar horse for $976 Jan 19, 2011
2000 2/3 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower lunar dragon for $808.08 Jan 19, 2011
1993 1 oz silver fu lu shu NGC MS 69 for $263.88 Jan 19, 2011
1993 1/2 oz gold Mao Tse-Tung NGC PF 69 UC for $4800 Jan 19, 2011
1981 15 g silver lunar rooster NGC PF 69 UC for $1305 Jan 19, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #35 article, total: $399

1996 1 oz silver unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $399 Jan 18, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #34 article, total: $11944.01

1988 1 oz platinum lunar dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $5600.01 Jan 17, 2011
1990 1 oz platinum horse NGC PF 69 UC for $5145 Jan 17, 2011

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $450 Jan 16, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $749 Jan 16, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #33 article, total: $7008.02

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $771.04 Jan 16, 2011
1993 1/10 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1098 Jan 16, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set NGC PF 69 UC for $1095 Jan 15, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $745 Jan 15, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $255 Jan 14, 2011
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299.99 Jan 14, 2011
1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $599.99 Jan 14, 2011
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $895 Jan 14, 2011
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $450 Jan 12, 2011
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799 Jan 11, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #32 article, total: $4741.88 (passed $100k in sold recommended investments)

1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $329 Jan 11, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $729 Jan 11, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $741 Jan 11, 2011
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $765 Jan 11, 2011
1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888.88 Jan 11, 2011
1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $404 Jan 11, 2011
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $355 Jan 11, 2011
1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $275 Jan 11, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $255 Jan 11, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #31 article, total: $3701

2004 1/4 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $895 Jan 10, 2011
1993 5 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $2561 Jan 10, 2011
2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $150 Jan 10, 2011
1991 silver Albert Eintstein NGC PF 69 UC for $95 Jan 09, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #30 article, total: $299.99

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $250 Jan 08, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary 2001-2002 panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $49.99 Jan 08, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #29 article, total: $4715.61

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $450 Jan 08, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Jan 08, 2011
1999 1/4 oz gold large date serif panda NGC MS 69 for $3049.99 Jan 08, 2011
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $143.60 Jan 08, 2011
2008 1 oz silver proof panda NGC MS 70 for $161.50 Jan 08, 2011
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $159.51 Jan 08, 2011
2009 1 oz silver proof panda NGC MS 70 for $139.95 Jan 08, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $250 Jan 07, 2011
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 69 for $62.06 Jan 07, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #28 article, total: $998

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $700 Jan 07, 2011
1990 1/10 oz gold proof pandas PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $298 Jan 06, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #27 article, total: $18595

1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Jan 06, 2011
1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69 for $5500 Jan 06, 2011
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $895 Jan 06, 2011
2008 5 oz gold panda NGC MS 70 for $11,400 Jan 06, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #26 article, total: $869.95

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $700 Jan 04, 2011
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $169.95 Jan 04, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #25 article, total: $823

1998 2/3 oz silver lunar scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $770 Jan 03, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver 1989 25th anniversary panda NGC PF 70 UC for $53 Jan 02, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #24 article, total: $2408.11

2008 1 oz silver olympic kite flying NGC PF 70 UC for $88.01 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic goat jumping NGC PF 70 UC for $87.10 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic shuttlecock NGC PF 70 UC for $81 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic hoop rolling NGC PF 70 UC for $82.01 Jan 02, 2011
1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69 for $99.99 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $280 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $540 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $150 Dec 31, 2010
1986 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1000 Dec 31, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #23 article, total: $2178

1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1996 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $449 Dec 31, 2010
1990 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $298 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $598 Dec 31, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $95 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $568 Dec 30, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #22 article, total: $600.11

2007 1/25 oz gold 2004 15 yuan proof panda NGC PF 70 UC for $119.99 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.38 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.76 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $100.88 Dec 30, 2010
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #21 article, total: $3975.38

2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $101.88 Dec 29, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.50 Dec 29, 2010
1987 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $550 Dec 28, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1188 Dec 28, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799 Dec 28, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 28, 2010
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $340 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #20 article, total: $4541.93

1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1298 Dec 28, 2010
2009 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 70 for $1850 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.38 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $106.50 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $104.05 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 X 10 for $1075 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #19 - Don't buy ungraded coins article, total: $2316.24

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Dec 27, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $399.99 Dec 27, 2010
2005 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 70 UC for $1295 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.05 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 27, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #18 article, total: $1716.48

1984 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1613.88 Dec 26, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.60 Dec 26, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-24 article, total: $2089.19 (passed $50k in sold recommended investments)

2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 24, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 25, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 25, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799.99 Dec 24, 2010
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 24, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments and commentary - 2010-Dec-23 article, total: $1901.60

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $749 Dec 23, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.60 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-21 article, total: $6892.07

1985 27 g proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1619 Dec 22, 2010
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $199.99 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $268 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $305.02 Dec 22, 2010
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $300.02 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver pig NGC PF 69 UC for $970 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $655 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $61 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower dog NGC PF 69 UC for $280 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.54 Dec 22, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 21, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 21, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-20 article, total: $8762.24

1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC for $402 Dec 20, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 20, 2010
1997 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower ox PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $2988 Dec 20, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $3551 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $66.89 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $109.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $119 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $123.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $126.30 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $41.05 Dec 20, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-19 article, total: $16,422

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 70 for $499.95 Dec 19, 2010
1988 1 oz silver dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $565.55 Dec 19, 2010
1988 8 g gold dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $1325 Dec 19, 2010
1989 1 oz gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $4100 Dec 19, 2010
1989 8 g gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $965 Dec 19, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69 for $6087 Dec 19, 2010
1999 1 oz gold small date panda for $2351.99 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $160 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $144.99 X 2 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97.50  Dec 19, 2010

Coins sold from older articles, total: $14,463

2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $150 Dec 18, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $42.05 Dec 18, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary pandas NGC MS 69 X 10 for $510.95 Dec 16, 2010
1986 5 yuan soccer NGC PF 69 matte KM-140A for $3950 Dec 15, 2010
1987 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 12, 2010
1989 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $960 Dec 12, 2010
2000 1/2 oz gold scallop lunar dragon PCGS PF 69 DCAM for $5895 Dec 12, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105 Dec 10, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010
1983 silver proof panda for $1800 Dec 06, 2010
« Last Edit: 2011 Feb 11, 12:54:39 am by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Feb 10, 07:45:58 pm »

Thank you for your recommendations and the time you take to put them together. As someone who witnessed a couple of bubbles in the last 10 years (Tech stocks in 2000  and Real Estate in 2007), do you think the chinese coin market is approaching forming a bubble? I came to this market from a bullion market where I strictly looked at the metal content. I understand there are much different criteria driving this market. But, some economists started sounding the "alarm" on an overheating Chinese economy, so do you see this trend going strong in the next 12-24 months? Thanks again Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Feb 10, 08:34:41 pm »

We are definitely NOT in a bubble, and at least 5 years away from one, but probably more like 10 to 20 years. During normal times, the threat of economic contraction would be able to take down a market like this. The fears of economic slowing in China are very real, but I think they're balanced by the prosperity of the West moving permanently (for the foreseeable future) to the East.

If something bad happens, I don't think it will last longer than 18 months as far as the coin market is concerned, as long as it isn't an epic disaster like nuclear war between superpowers.

The currencies of the world are collapsing. Before that process finishes, people are putting their money into hard assets like Chinese coins, to protect their wealth from inflation. As long as that is a process in progress, nothing will change for the coin market. After that process completes, people will need money. Values of common coins will drop to bullion value as people put them into the market to buy basics like food. Some of the cheap coins in my list will be vulnerable to that temporarily until things stabilize. I usually mention taking profits on those coins so you can put them into rarer coins that will hold their value better.

Very rare coins will probably drop less, or even keep moving up.

I'm describing the end of the economic catastrophe, when things are at their worst, and recovery begins. That will be the critical time to make sure you have some way to survive it, literally and financially, without either starving to death or being forced to trade a rare coin for a sack of potatoes.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
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About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
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buynicething
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Feb 11, 01:48:18 am »

The 25th anniversary set for 822.22 should be good.
I purchased one from this seller a few weeks ago.
They were all excellent, problem free coins.
I messaged the seller about this one, and she
said :
"The set is exactly like the other one that we sold you but we relisted it exactly like yours. However we are still looking for the COA for this one and can't locate it yet. Thanks,
Cindy"

I would have picked this one up myself, but am cashless at the moment.
I don't know if she fond the coa yet.
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Feb 11, 06:52:59 am »

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I am glad I found this forum. Keep up the good work Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Feb 11, 10:36:47 am »

The 25th anniversary set for 822.22 should be good.
I purchased one from this seller a few weeks ago.
They were all excellent, problem free coins.
I messaged the seller about this one, and she
said :
"The set is exactly like the other one that we sold you but we relisted it exactly like yours. However we are still looking for the COA for this one and can't locate it yet. Thanks,
Cindy"

I would have picked this one up myself, but am cashless at the moment.
I don't know if she fond the coa yet.


Thanks for the information. Now that the 2007 25th anniversary panda sets are moving up, the good coins are being taken off the market and the bad ones are being put on the market. So, it's important to watch out for the white spots. My impression is that very few of them have white spots, but it could happen, even with a graded coin, so people need to know what to look for, and what to do if they find something wrong. Your info is very helpful for people looking to buy these coins. Thanks!

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I am glad I found this forum. Keep up the good work Smiley

No problem, I love answering questions. I often run out of time to do everything, but I do my best, whenever it's possible.
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Feb 11, 10:42:55 am »

I messaged the seller about this one, and she
said :
"The set is exactly like the other one that we sold you but we relisted it exactly like yours. However we are still looking for the COA for this one and can't locate it yet. Thanks,
Cindy"

I would have picked this one up myself, but am cashless at the moment.
I don't know if she fond the coa yet.

I might have a few extra COA's. I have no idea where they came from. I've been finding boxes and COA's for coins that I didn't even know I had.
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Feb 11, 12:44:29 pm »

Hello Badon,
    Your #1 suggestion is the 2007 set.  Do you think they are a better buy than a 1995 or 1996 proof 69 panda at a similar price?
Also your help would be much appreciated with formulating a strategy.  So far I have been thinking that it would be wise to break things
up, and have several coins that are under 30k, 10k, 8k, and 4k mintages.  Also if possible some coins with 1k mintages.  Although to many of us these are not affordable.  I chose 30k as the cutoff just because I feel like there will be something special about those coins.  Do you think that is a good way to break down investments?  Also I have really been wondering what the most affordable coins with under 10k mintage are.
    I have sent 20 pandas to NGC, and 18 pandas to ICG.  So I have a complete set , minus all the varieties.  Do you think it would be a good decision to sell them at a profit when they come back, then reinvest in rarer coins?  Or maybe keep the 92-95 coins and sell the rest? 

   
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Feb 11, 12:48:15 pm »

You once said something like the 2007 proof pandas from the set will be worth almost the same as 1989 proof.  So if you buy the set basically you are getting 25 1989 proofs. 
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Feb 11, 01:35:16 pm »

The ICG coins will not appear in my list. The only grading services I'm listing right now are NGC and PCGS coins. In the future, I may consider including ANACS, but I don't think I will consider including ICG since the best graders from ICG went to ANACS, last I heard.

The advantage of sending coins to NGC, above all others, is that you can go through NCS first to have your coins conserved. A conserved coin will retain its grade better over time, and it will get a better grade once residues, dust, etc have been removed.

I agree with your strategy of diversifying your collection. Many of the not-so-rare coins are underpriced. You can buy them up, and then sell a few when their price moves up to where it should be, then reinvest the profits into the rarer coins.

I don't pick any cutoff mintage. The mintage figures aren't as important as important as popularity, especially when the official planned mintage figures are not the same as the actual, surviving population. I have made huge profits on coins with mintages between 50,000 and 200,000 because of this.

I would keep your best coins, and sell the not so good coins. Over time, the best coins will be hoarded while the not-so-good coins will continue to circulate. Those are the coins you want to make your money on by buying and selling. The rare coins you should just buy, and not sell.

When deciding which coins are rare and which ones are not, I decide if it will be easy to replace it or not. If it will be easy to replace, I recommend that you buy and sell as frequently as you want to earn some extra money. For the rare coins, buy when you can, but don't sell. I have traded some of my best coins for even better coins. That's the closest I've come to selling really good coins.

Someday you will not be able to buy them anymore. The good coins will disappear into collections, and won't be seen again for many years, at very high prices. Any high grade coin with a mintage under 10,000 will surely be one of those coins. Any coin where high grade specimens are rare will be that way, regardless of the mintage.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
Coin, medal, whatever!
Coin storage advice.
FreeArc is amazing.
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