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Author Topic: Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #33 - proof pandas slowing?  (Read 3830 times)
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badon
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« on: 2011 Jan 11, 11:24:40 pm »



Scroll WAY down to see the recommendations and skip the commentary!

Popular proof pandas slowing, other coins gaining attention

My gauge of the market has been the silver proof pandas. Lots of them have been hitting the market in response to the massive increases in price that they've achieved during the last few months and weeks. Ebay's seller incentives have given us auction-style listings that have allowed bidders to show us what they really think a coin is worth. At first, my pricing estimates on auctions were quite accurate, with coins falling neatly within the ranges that I've estimated. Then, prices starting surpassing my estimates, sometimes by several hundred dollars per coin. Now, my estimates are starting to overshoot the prices that the silver proof pandas are selling for, in just two of the auctions that ended today.

Is that a sign of slowing in the market? It could be, but the silver proof pandas are not the whole picture. Prices aren't dropping noticeably (yet) on the silver proof pandas, but they do seem to be slowing their roaring price gains, and prices seem to be settling for the rarest 1994, 1995, and 1996 coins. Prices are still floating around like a butterfly, but I think as spring approaches, we'll be able to come up with sensible answers to the question of what these coins are worth. Right now, it's hard to say!

Price records are still being set on other coins, though. For example, the 1996 1 oz silver proof unicorns have been selling very quickly, at increased prices with each sale. The 1991 silver Einstein historical figures coin sold quickly, and the 2007 25th anniversary proof pandas have been selling quickly too. Basically, I think the coins that are cheaper, rare, and haven't yet seen massive price gains are starting to pull interest away from the main series of 1 oz silver proof pandas.

NCS puts spotlight on modern Chinese coins

NCS is the Numismatic Conservation Service - the company that does conservation for coins prior to grading at NGC. They've published some impressive results they've achieved with rare modern Chinese coins. Take a look at the photos of before:



And after:



The coin below received a 69 grade, but it developed permanent White Spots Of Death (WSOD) AFTER it was graded, because it wasn't conserved BEFORE grading. This coin had invisible residues on it that corroded the surface of the coin by surprise after it was graded and put into storage. The spots are permanently etched into the metal now, and cannot be removed - it's too late to conserve this coin, and another one is lost forever. If the coin were conserved before grading, the invisible residues would have been removed before they could damage the coin, and its grade would have been preserved. This coin is now just a hunk of scrap metal:



NCS and NGC refuse to help buyers find conserved coins for long term investment

I've talked a lot about NCS conservation of silver coins, especially the ones with the highest grades that were graded in the past. Coins that were not conserved before grading could degrade over time as invisible residues corrode their surfaces. That could make your investments virtually worthless!

There are nuances to which coins are worrisome, and which aren't, so I've recommended coins that look good despite not knowing whether they've been conserved or not. For example, an old silver coin that still looks good after many years is probably OK, and a newer panda that came from modern PVC-free packaging is probably OK too. But, the only way to know for sure is to only buy coins that have been conserved before grading.

Sadly, NCS and NGC continue to refuse to indicate on the holders if a coin has been conserved, even if requested. I have begged them to let me buy coins that I know will not become hunks of scrap metal over time, and they won't listen to me - just one person - but they will listen to the market as a whole. That means you. Everyone needs to contact NCS and tell them you want to buy coins that you know have been conserved. Tell them that you want to buy coins that NGC marks as conserved on their holders. Here's the person to contact:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Once we persuade them that we want to know that our coins are safe, they will obey our demands and start marking the conserved coins. Only then can we be reasonably certain (but never 100%) that our investments will not become worthless over time.

Recommended reading

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* LBC makes me rich
* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor

Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide Book

This is THE panda book, written by the world's foremost expert on Chinese panda coins. Buy the book before the coin. Enough said.

Modern Chinese coin PricePedia price guide with bonus using "LBC" referral code


In addition to the book you can subscribe to the PricePedia, which gives up-to-date monthly pricing information on over 700 different coins, as well as a few pointers on what's hot or undervalued in the market. If you put in LBC for the referral code, you get a bonus list of undervalued coins, along with your subscription.

My choices

Lots of very impressive investment-grade coins are in today's list. I've decided not to pick a top pick because it just comes down to personal preference with so many excellent investments available right now.

If you have questions about investing in any of these coins, please ask. If you find a coin that seems like it should be listed here, but isn't, please tell me about it. I frequently wait to list a coin here until I've had time to do the proper research on it that's needed for me to give you the basic facts on each coin. If you'd like to see info faster on a particular coin, I can make it a higher priority for you. I've noticed people don't like asking questions, because they don't want anyone else to know they're thinking of buying a particular coin. People don't want to talk about the coins they're interested in due to "coin snatchers" grabbing them. Competition for the investment-grade coins listed in these articles is fierce!



Perfect 70 coins



Common silver 70 graded coins are very popular with "the masses" who are not serious collectors or investors, but since they're not rare, their valuations can be fickle. I recommend that once you've gained a comfortable profit, you should sell and reinvest the cash into rarer coins.

I've noticed sellers jacking up their prices on these coins once they get listed here, so I'm going to have to list them more carefully, with a mention of the price at the time they get included.

I have decided not to list the common, recent date gold 70 pandas because the rich vs poor market dynamics do not support the high prices that the common silver 70 coins can gain. In short, I've changed my mind that the gold counterparts are good places to put your investment money, even though they're significantly underpriced compared to silver coins. I don't think the comparison between gold and silver will hold up to enough of a degree to make it worthwhile to sink a good quantity of money into the common gold coins. The numismatic premiums will probably never reach the levels of the silver coins.

One of the gold coins listed in the wrong category was bid up to a level that no longer makes it an undervalued good investment, so I've removed that one too.

1993 1/2 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70

$3000 Buy-It-Now. Early date 70 coins are very rare.



Proof pandas



All the early proof pandas are what I like to call $10,000 coins, because I firmly believe within the next decade, you will have to pay $10k+ to obtain one. coins here meet at least 4 of the 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment. The only one they may not meet is the one about conservation, which is less important as long as the coin looks good despite its age, and not very important at all for gold, platinum, and palladium.

If any of the silver coins you buy have white spots when you receive them, you should probably return it for a refund. The white spots may be correctable through conservation, but that's the seller's problem, not yours.

Now that the issue of which silver proof panda coin is the rarest seems to have been settled, the 1994 and the 1996 have increased rapidly in value. However, it turns out that all three of the top coins - the 1994, 1995, and the 1996 - have similarly small actual mintages. There's no one coin that is dramatically rarer than any of the others. The information I have says that all of them have mintages of around 7000 to 8000 coins. So, buy them all up whenever you can, as your cash holdings allow.

1987 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1050 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 31,000.

1987 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1988 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$255 Buy-It-Now.

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$350 Buy-It-Now.

1989 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$1298 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 5000.

1990 5-coin proof gold panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The mintage is 20,000 and 212 are known graded 69 at NGC, and they have sold recently for $268, $305.02, and $299 (all from this list).

1990 1/10 oz platinum proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

With only 4500 coins minted, this coin is very rare. Add to that the fact that a huge portion, if not most of them, were used in jewelry or melted down, then there are probably very few surviving specimens in high grades. With a price of only $699, and half the mintage of a silver proof panda that sells for almost twice as much, this is a highly recommended investment, even though it's platinum, which is less popular than either silver or gold, and will make it more difficult to sell.

NEW 1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$399 starting auction price, $450 Buy-It-Now.

1991 5-coin proof gold panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1992 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$699 auction starting price.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$449 Buy-It-Now.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The official mintage for the 1992 coins is 20,000 but is probably lower, as is often the case for early coins. Prices have been steadily increasing, and this one has sold for $278 and $399 for a 69 specimen, and up to a whopping $738 for a damaged, ungraded coin. The $738 price was ridiculous, but it's a clue as to how crazy people get sometimes. The damage on the $738 coin is a torch sloppily engraved into it by a private coin dealer in Germany when the coin was first released. 3000 of them were damaged by the torch engraving, and word hasn't quite made it to all the collectors in China that the torch isn't supposed to be there. The Chinese dealers seem to be making good money by not telling them too!

So, we know that 3000 of these coins were damaged right when they were released, and I suspect that the Chinese dealers may be getting greedy, and they could be carving their own little torches into the surviving coins to try to score a $700+ price tag on a damaged coin. That means that, in addition to probably having a lower mintage than the official figures suggest, we already know that at least 3000 coins have been damaged. That makes this coin a good investment, because it doesn't cost more than coins that weren't damaged on a large scale.

I would grab this coin before word spreads that the little torch coins are actually damaged coins, and pristine coins are much rarer than people have thought. Only 109 have been graded a 69, which is about half as many as expected - but the coin does not cost twice as much! This coin is underpriced, and a good investment. Buy them when you find them.

1993 1/10 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$1098 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 2000.

1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$699 Buy-It-Now.

1993 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$988 Buy-It-Now.

1993 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

This is one of the most expensive sellers on ebay, but they always have the best coins. The other proof gold pandas I've listed here are priced way too low, but this one is much more fairly priced at $4985. It also happens to be one of the rarest with a mintage of only 2500! This coin will easily reach $10,000 levels within the next few years, or less. It could do it tomorrow! Once you've bought up all the bargains, get this coin. Rarities like this don't turn up often, so pay what you have to pay.

NEW 1994 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

$1598 Buy-It-Now, 2500 mintage.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$799 Buy-It-Now.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$1099.99 Buy-It-Now.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$688 auction starting price.

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

$895 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 30,000.

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set NGC PF 69 UC

$1095 auction starting price, $1295 Buy-It-Now.

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set

Search for 2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary pandas

As a policy, I don't list coins that are not graded and authenticated by NGC or PCGS. However, this deal is too good to pass up, so I'm making an exception for it. I've seen the 2007 1/4 proof pandas sell for as cheaply as around $15 lately, but they're as rare as the other pandas selling for hundreds of dollars. There are many original sets of all 25 of the 2007 proof panda coins available on ebay right now. The lowest priced ones are about $900, and the highest priced ones are about $1300. At the highest price, that translates to only about $52 per coin! Compare that to the 1989 1 oz silver proof panda that has a similar mintage, and sells for $199 in a 69 grade.

Granted, almost none of these are graded. You'll have to know what you're doing to buy these, but I think you should be able to double your money on them easily once word gets out that you can still buy proof silver pandas for about the same price as an ungraded 2010 non-proof panda. Think it over - 2010 boring panda with a mintage of 3 million for $50, or a 2007 proof panda with a mintage 30,000 for $50. Don't be a fool, buy them up before sellers realize what they've got.



Platinum and palladium pandas



1989 1 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC

$6450 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 3000.

1990 1 oz platinum panda NGC PF 69 UC

$10,750 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 1300. The last one sold at auction for close to the asking price for this coin. It's been getting talked about quite a lot. Platinum is getting popular, it seems.

NEW 2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC

$895 Buy-It-Now.

NEW 2004 and 2005 1/2 oz palladium panda set NGC PF 70 UC

$2995 auction starting price.



Rare gold BU pandas



1982 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69

1982 gold panda 4 coin set NGC MS 69

$12475 Buy-It-Now.

1982 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69

I've been ignoring 1982 pandas for a long time, but I can't ignore them anymore. When they first came out near the end of the 1980's gold bubble, and before the numismatics boom of the late 1980's and 1990's, they were meant to be just ordinary bullion. China just wanted to make a gold bullion round to sell some of their gold production, so not much effort was put into the the design. The coins were frequently handled, dropped, scratched, dented, etc because no one thought they would end up being valuable in high grades.

It's technically only a medal, not a coin, because it has no face value. When it became more popular than expected, collectors requested that China put a face value on all the standard series pandas that followed. The Chinese government later retroactively insisted that the 1982 pandas are legal tender, though I don't know exactly what the face value is supposed to be.

The reason why a face value is so important is because legal tender anti-counterfeiting laws protect collectors by harshly punishing anyone that makes a fake. Medals have no such legal protection. However, China has had many governments during its history, and many different currencies. I have suspected that the details about whether a collectible metal disc is still legal tender or not matters comparatively little to Chinese people who have a long history of just using gold and silver in standard weights, instead of government-created things like dollars, yuan, renminbi, etc. However, medals without a face value have been slower to increase in value than the legal tender coins, so I haven't recommended them much in the past.

All that is changing. A few days ago, a medal sold for over $15,000 when it was expected to sell for $10,000. The bidding competition was unusually fierce, and coming from experienced collectors and investors with serious money to spend on coins. I have noticed the 1982 pandas have doubled in value during the last few months, and although they still don't seem to be increasing as fast as the other coins, I think that's actually an illusion. The other coins increase in spurts, as their popularity increases or decreases. The 1982 coins have always been popular, and they've been steadily increasing in value almost unnoticed.

When looking at the NGC grading populations for these "coins", it's clear they're rare in high grades. There are only 76 1/10 oz, 214 1/4 oz, 64 1/2 oz, and 79 1 oz coins graded in MS 69. Of those 4 sizes, the only one that isn't very rare is the 1/4 oz coin. The mintages for all of them are somewhat high compared to the mintages on the other coins I've been recommending, but for all but the 1/4 oz coin, they have good "grade rarity" and enormous popularity that makes them good investments. They're all extremely hard to find in a 69 grade, and complete sets are rarely seen. The 1/2 oz coin is the rarest overall, but the 1 oz coin has the most "grade rarity".

These prices are high, but where else can you find them in a 69 grade? There's just not enough of them out there. The 1 oz gold coin, for example, should have around 2500 coins on the entire planet that would grade 69 or better. That's NOT a lot of coins! I believe the 1982 pandas are a good investment. They may or may not perform as well as legal tender coins over the long term, but I think you'll have no trouble at all taking a profit and putting your money into something else if the high demand for medals does not continue. 1982 pandas are fortunately very easy to sell due to their high popularity.

1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69

The seller of this coin has a reputation for occasionally overpricing coins to ridiculous values. This coin was one of those coins. WAS! The value of this coin is rising so fast, $10,000+ is becoming a fair price to pay. It's investment grade, individual, and most importantly, it's available. The 1998 large date coins also happen to be the rarest of all BU pandas. I know who has these coins, and I know they're not selling until the sets reach $30,000+. That will probably happen within 18 months or less, and although people will tell you this coin is ridiculously overpriced now, in a few months it will seem like a bargain. Pay the price you have to pay, it's worth it. A complete set of 1/20 oz to 1 oz coins will someday cost you $100,000 or more. $10k for the largest piece in the set (but not the rarest) is no big deal. Buy them when you find them, pay what you have to pay, and hold them tightly.

1999 1 oz gold large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 69

This is an extremely rare panda with an extremely high price. It was initially offered for $5999, and I ignored it. The seller dropped the price to $4999, which makes me wiling to recommend it here in this list. This is so irritating with all of these high prices on rare pandas, but this seller is the only one that is offering this coin. So, whatever they want for it, that's the price. If you want the best investment-grade coins, you have to pay what you have to pay. Don't worry about overpaying, as long as you get the coin, and you can hold it for the long term. In due time, you will be RICHLY rewarded. When it comes time to sell, you will be glad you're selling a coin that you can ask any price you want for it.

2000 1 oz gold mirror panda NGC MS 69



Large date and small date pandas



Investment grade large date and small date pandas

Pricing information is very immature for panda varieties so here's a search, not necessarily a list of recommendations, that shows you what I might have put in this article if there were more information available. Pricing is erratic, with no one quite sure what a fair price should be, not even the sellers themselves. That usually means everything is selling too cheap. Good luck, and get them while you can.



Rare lunar coins




1998 1 oz platinum tiger NGC PF 69 UC

$21,000 auction starting price, $23,500 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 300.

1999 1/2 oz gold lunar scallop plum blossom flower rabbit PCGS PR 69 DCAM

This coin is too expensive at $4300 - but it's the only one available. I posted about others that were available for half as much just a few days ago, but they're gone, so $4300 is your new price for those who weren't the lucky buyers of those other recommendations. This coin has a mintage of only 2300 coins, so I have no doubt you'll be able to sell it for $10k+ within a few years or sooner, though I do not recommend planning on selling it at that price because it could go FAR higher. You "overpay" now for a good coin just to get it, and then make your profits later. It's frustrating this price is so dramatically higher than the last coins that sold, but you won't get good coins if you don't pay what you have to pay to get them.

In short, is $4300 an unfair price to pay for a coin that was selling for around $2500 to $3000 only one week ago? No, it is not unfair at all. Expensive, yes, but if you have the cash, buy this coin. It will only cost you more later.



Other investment grade coins



1979 1/2 oz silver matte year of the child NGC MS 69

This is a great coin being offered at a fair price. Cheapskates keep offering low-ball prices, but this coin is worth every penny of the $15,000 asking price. The last coins sold for increasingly high values of $7000 to almost $10,000 recently, and none of them were graded. This coin has a high 69 grade, a low mintage, and is extremely popular. Don't be a cheapskate, pay the full asking price and grab it before someone else does. It is worth it.

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 69

$299 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. I wouldn't pay the full asking price on this coin. I'd make an offer of $100 to $250, to see if you can get it cheaper.

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 70

$795 Buy-It-Now, or best offer.

This coin is one of 6 known with a 70 grade, out of just over 57 total graded. That means, OF THE COINS SENT IN FOR GRADING, a little more than 1 in 10 come back as a 70. The official planned mintage for this coin is 90,000 and there are plenty of them available for sale that are ungraded. Ungraded coins sell for $30 to $50, incleased from $25 to $30, and the last graded one was a 69 and it sold for about $100, which is 300% to 400% of the ungraded price.

Normally 69 graded coins used to sell for about 20% more than ungraded coins, unless it's especially difficult to find a high grade specimen, but that price difference has increased to as much as 100% more due to the large quantity of crap coins circulating and recirculating in the market over and over.

70 coins used to cost 50% more than 69 coins, but lately they've been selling for 100% to 300% more. I have seen a few coins sell for as much as 500% more than the equivalent 69. Although a $795 price tag for this coin would have been too high a month ago, right now, it's only on the highest end of what I would expect to see for a 70 coin. The last 70 that appeared on the market sold for $499.95 one December 19th, 2010. You may be able to haggle the seller down by $200, since he's probably making a good profit on it.

Since the last one of these appeared, only a few coins have been submitted for grading, which is shocking since the price difference is so high for a fine, graded specimen. I suspect dealers are looking at the raw coins, and rejecting them immediately because they'll get low grades if they sent them in.

This is a beautiful coin, and hard to find in such a high grade, despite what is believed to be a high mintage for an old coin (for now). Compared to newer coins, this coin is rare, in any investment grade of 69 or better. Given the uncertainties, I wouldn't bother with it in a 69 grade until more is known about just how rare this coin is in high grades, but I think it's a safe investment in a 70 grade, even at a price that "everyone" thinks is too high.

1993 1 oz silver peacock NGC PF 69 UC

$725 auction starting price. Mintage 7000.

1993 1/2 oz gold definition of zero invention & discovery NGC PF 69 UC

$6875 auction starting price, $7800 Buy-It-Now. Mintage 1200, actual mintage probably just a few hundred.

1993 1/2 oz gold Mao Tse-Tung NGC PF 69 UC

This coin is expensive. It has an official mintage of 5000, but probably fewer pieces were actually minted. The pricing information out there says it should be priced about $1000 lower than it is. People have made many offers on this coin, trying to get it at a cheaper price. The problem is, the price information people are relying on is for ungraded coins. This coin has a high, investment-quality grade. I think that makes it worth the extra $1000. The unusually high number of offers made on this coin leads me to believe that the coin is very popular, and priced close to what people think it should sell for - but people are just being cheap. The best coins require aggressive buying, and $1000 here and there won't matter in the long run.

1995 1/2 oz gold yellow river culture NGC PF 69 UC

$5175 auction starting price. Mintage 3000.

1996 1 oz silver piedfort kuan yin NGC PF 69 UC

$950 Buy-It-Now, or best offer. Mintage 5000. Price has been dropped to $550.

1996 1/2 oz gold musical instrument invention & discovery NGC PF 69 UC

$7195 auction starting price. Mintage 404.

1996 1/4 oz platinum unicorn NGC PF 69 UC

$17,300 Buy-It-Now. This coin has an official planned mintage of only 500 coins, but as usual, probably fewer were made, and even less survived in investment-grade.

1997 5 oz silver romance of the three kingdoms NGC PF 69 UC

$3800 auction starting price. Mintage 1500. These are very rare, and VERY popular. I do not know what it is worth, however. They are rarely seen, let alone in such a high investment-quality grade.

1997 5 oz silver yellow river culture NGC PF 69 UC

$6350 auction starting price.



Helpful searches



These are helpful searches for coins, not necessarily a list of recommendations, like the other items in this article. If you didn't see anything you like above, you may find coins on your own here that I have ignored or overlooked. I've included an ebay search widget to show you a sample of search results, when possible (they don't always work, so I leave them out).

I'm not going to be able to keep track of when stuff in these searches sell, so you'll have to let me know if you invest in something from these automated searches, so I can include it in the list of other coins that have sold. It would also be appreciated if you posted your coins in the LBC makes me rich thread. Thank you very much!

Search for Chinese coins in 69 grade

Search for Chinese coins in 70 grade

Search for all Chinese coins

Search for proof pandas

Search for panda coins of all types



Sold recommendations



Total recommendations sold: $103010.80

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #32 article, total: $4741.88 (passed $100k in sold recommended investments)

1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $329 Jan 11, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $729 Jan 11, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $741 Jan 11, 2011
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $765 Jan 11, 2011
1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888.88 Jan 11, 2011
1993 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $404 Jan 11, 2011
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $355 Jan 11, 2011
1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $275 Jan 11, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $255 Jan 11, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #31 article, total: $3701

2004 1/4 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $895 Jan 10, 2011
1993 5 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $2561 Jan 10, 2011
2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $150 Jan 10, 2011
1991 silver Albert Eintstein NGC PF 69 UC for $95 Jan 09, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #30 article, total: $299.99

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $250 Jan 08, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary 2001-2002 panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $49.99 Jan 08, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #29 article, total: $4715.61

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $450 Jan 08, 2011
1996 1 oz silver proof unicorn NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Jan 08, 2011
1999 1/4 oz gold large date serif panda NGC MS 69 for $3049.99 Jan 08, 2011
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $143.60 Jan 08, 2011
2008 1 oz silver proof panda NGC MS 70 for $161.50 Jan 08, 2011
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $159.51 Jan 08, 2011
2009 1 oz silver proof panda NGC MS 70 for $139.95 Jan 08, 2011
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $250 Jan 07, 2011
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 69 for $62.06 Jan 07, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #28 article, total: $998

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $700 Jan 07, 2011
1990 1/10 oz gold proof pandas PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $298 Jan 06, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #27 article, total: $18595

1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Jan 06, 2011
1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69 for $5500 Jan 06, 2011
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $895 Jan 06, 2011
2008 5 oz gold panda NGC MS 70 for $11,400 Jan 06, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #26 article, total: $869.95

2007 1/4 oz silver proof 25th anniversary panda 25 coin set for $700 Jan 04, 2011
2005 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $169.95 Jan 04, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #25 article, total: $823

1998 2/3 oz silver lunar scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $770 Jan 03, 2011
2007 1/4 oz silver 1989 25th anniversary panda NGC PF 70 UC for $53 Jan 02, 2011

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #24 article, total: $2408.11

2008 1 oz silver olympic kite flying NGC PF 70 UC for $88.01 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic goat jumping NGC PF 70 UC for $87.10 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic shuttlecock NGC PF 70 UC for $81 Jan 02, 2011
2008 1 oz silver olympic hoop rolling NGC PF 70 UC for $82.01 Jan 02, 2011
1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69 for $99.99 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $280 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $540 Jan 01, 2011
1986 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $150 Dec 31, 2010
1986 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1000 Dec 31, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #23 article, total: $2178

1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1996 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $449 Dec 31, 2010
1990 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $298 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $598 Dec 31, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $95 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $568 Dec 30, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #22 article, total: $600.11

2007 1/25 oz gold 2004 15 yuan proof panda NGC PF 70 UC for $119.99 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.38 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.76 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $100.88 Dec 30, 2010
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #21 article, total: $3975.38

2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $101.88 Dec 29, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.50 Dec 29, 2010
1987 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $550 Dec 28, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1188 Dec 28, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799 Dec 28, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 28, 2010
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $340 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #20 article, total: $4541.93

1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1298 Dec 28, 2010
2009 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 70 for $1850 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.38 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $106.50 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $104.05 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 X 10 for $1075 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #19 - Don't buy ungraded coins article, total: $2316.24

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Dec 27, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $399.99 Dec 27, 2010
2005 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 70 UC for $1295 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.05 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 27, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #18 article, total: $1716.48

1984 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1613.88 Dec 26, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.60 Dec 26, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-24 article, total: $2089.19 (passed $50k in sold recommended investments)

2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 24, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 25, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 25, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799.99 Dec 24, 2010
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 24, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments and commentary - 2010-Dec-23 article, total: $1901.60

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $749 Dec 23, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.60 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-21 article, total: $6892.07

1985 27 g proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1619 Dec 22, 2010
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $199.99 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $268 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $305.02 Dec 22, 2010
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $300.02 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver pig NGC PF 69 UC for $970 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $655 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $61 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower dog NGC PF 69 UC for $280 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.54 Dec 22, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 21, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 21, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-20 article, total: $8762.24

1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC for $402 Dec 20, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 20, 2010
1997 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower ox PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $2988 Dec 20, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $3551 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $66.89 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $109.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $119 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $123.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $126.30 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $41.05 Dec 20, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-19 article, total: $16,422

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 70 for $499.95 Dec 19, 2010
1988 1 oz silver dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $565.55 Dec 19, 2010
1988 8 g gold dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $1325 Dec 19, 2010
1989 1 oz gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $4100 Dec 19, 2010
1989 8 g gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $965 Dec 19, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69 for $6087 Dec 19, 2010
1999 1 oz gold small date panda for $2351.99 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $160 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $144.99 X 2 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97.50  Dec 19, 2010

Coins sold from older articles, total: $14,463

2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $150 Dec 18, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $42.05 Dec 18, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary pandas NGC MS 69 X 10 for $510.95 Dec 16, 2010
1986 5 yuan soccer NGC PF 69 matte KM-140A for $3950 Dec 15, 2010
1987 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 12, 2010
1989 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $960 Dec 12, 2010
2000 1/2 oz gold scallop lunar dragon PCGS PF 69 DCAM for $5895 Dec 12, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105 Dec 10, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010
1983 silver proof panda for $1800 Dec 06, 2010


* NCS before.jpg (262.57 KB, 500x500 - viewed 2829 times.)

* NCS after.jpg (251.68 KB, 500x500 - viewed 1748 times.)

* no conservation white spots of death.jpg (242.63 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 2060 times.)
« Last Edit: 2011 Jan 12, 02:08:27 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jan 12, 08:03:01 am »

Wow, your recommendations sold is close to $100,000 total. Congratulations!
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jan 12, 02:09:22 pm »

Actually, they passed $100k with my previous article. I just forgot to add it up and update the total for this article. Thanks for the congrats! It's been a fun project.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jan 13, 09:50:48 am »

You listed the 1998 large date for over $10K, but not the 1998 small date from the same seller for $6K. Are they really taht different? At what price will that 1998 small date make to your list (i.e., becomes a bargain)?
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jan 13, 09:52:16 am »

Of all the silver pandas i bought NONE was ever conserved. I dont even know whats up with that?Huh? Seriously like not even one coin is conserved!!!!! And thats also how the coins are looking.

Im 100% not going for silver coins anymore specialy not proof panda silver because most of them are graded 69 but a bad condition. ( not conserved). i had everything of it already!
Out of 26 silver proof pandas from 1989 till 1996 i have seen myself with my eyes NONE was conserved and every coin had toning,white dots or black. And they all were 69 graded

its seriously a problem as badon already said but the problem is bigger than we thinking because we keep saying it might be worthless in few years but i tell you it will be for a lot of the rare silver panda coins!!!!

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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jan 13, 10:40:01 am »

Wow Fanofbadon, 26 proof pandas and none conserved! Time to sell them while the price is still high, and before they become worthless? Or maybe just keep the best of those and send them to conserve by NCS? I don't have that many proofs, and I stopped buying them already.
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jan 13, 10:52:48 am »

Wow Fanofbadon, 26 proof pandas and none conserved! Time to sell them while the price is still high, and before they become worthless? Or maybe just keep the best of those and send them to conserve by NCS? I don't have that many proofs, and I stopped buying them already.

yh -_- trust me i am really dissapointed. I am really sure that most of the proof coins that are out right now arent conserved. Im not really sure what to do with mine i have left now.
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jan 13, 01:41:10 pm »

Of all the silver pandas i bought NONE was ever conserved. I dont even know whats up with that?Huh? Seriously like not even one coin is conserved!!!!! And thats also how the coins are looking.

Im 100% not going for silver coins anymore specialy not proof panda silver because most of them are graded 69 but a bad condition. ( not conserved). i had everything of it already!
Out of 26 silver proof pandas from 1989 till 1996 i have seen myself with my eyes NONE was conserved and every coin had toning,white dots or black. And they all were 69 graded

its seriously a problem as badon already said but the problem is bigger than we thinking because we keep saying it might be worthless in few years but i tell you it will be for a lot of the rare silver panda coins!!!!

Please send emails, letters, and phone calls to this guy to tell him you want labeling on NGC holders to show the conserved coins:

Craig Fiumara
Numismatic Conservation Services
Operations Manager
Phone 866-627-2646  Ext. 145
Fax 941-360-2559
CraigF@NCScoin.com

Don't worry about toning, black spots, etc. The only thing you have to worry about are white spots. If you get any of those, you should return them to the seller for a refund. Older coins that don't have white spots yet are probably OK. Toning, and spots of any color are OK too, as long as there's no white spots.

Haze may or may not be a problem. White spots usually start to look "furry" after a while, but haze does not. Sometimes the haze will come off, and sometimes it won't. If your coins do not have haze or white spots, then I wouldn't worry about them at all.
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jan 13, 03:43:56 pm »

You listed the 1998 large date for over $10K, but not the 1998 small date from the same seller for $6K. Are they really taht different? At what price will that 1998 small date make to your list (i.e., becomes a bargain)?

I have ignored the small date because I think most of its price comes from the popularity of the large date. People are buying them up to make complete sets of both large and small dates, when really, it's the large date that's the rare one. The prices are "too high" for both the large date and small date coins, but it's worth paying for the large dates because they're the key coins. The small dates aren't as rare, so I don't recommend "overpaying" for those yet. If you have that kind of money, skip the 1998 small dates and get the large dates first.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
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LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
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Use my work. Give credit.
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