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Author Topic: Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #24  (Read 2176 times)
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badon
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« on: 2010 Dec 31, 09:00:26 pm »



2010 MS 70 pandas have held above $120 all day today, in anticipation of the new year. All those that bought at $110 and below are in profitable territory. The single seller that is flooding the market with these will eventually run out, and I expect prices to correct up to around $145 very quickly, and then continue gaining up to around $160 to $180, which is where I would take profits. The 2010 coins are a good short term investment because of the temporary price drop, but if you have money for better coins, I would take your profits and put it into rarer coins. Even something as inexpensive as a 2009 panda would be a better long term investment because of the much smaller mintage.

I've started indicating which items are new to the list by putting "NEW" in front of the item link, so you can find the new stuff easily. Items being carried over from the last list will be the same as always. I've removed the palladium pandas because their prices are all up into the $1200 range, which is where I think they should be right now. I still think they're good investments, but since this article is getting longer and longer, I decided to cut them out for a while.

The proof silver pandas are similar to the palladium pandas, in that I think they're now priced where they should be, but I've decided to leave them in the article because they're much more popular than palladium pandas, which makes them better investments even at higher prices.

I'm also going to start mentioning my top picks for each article, if there's something that I think stands out. My top pick for this article is the 1986 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $150, with an official mintage of only 10,000. This coin could easily be selling for over $1000, given it's rarity, but even right now, I think it should be priced around $300 to $400. I'm also very much pleased with the 1/10 oz gold right under it for $350. It has the same mintage, and is priced right.

After those two, the 1990 1/10 oz platinum panda looks good because of its low mintage of 4500 coins. The rarity of this coin in high grade should not be underestimated, since it is NOT a proof, and many of them were probably destroyed. Even though it's platinum, instead of more popular gold or silver, I still think its price and rarity combine to make it one of my top picks.

Then, the 1982 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69, because it's the rarest of the lot of 1982 pandas, and one of the cheaper ones too. They're so difficult to find in high grade, I think it's the key to the 1982 set, and so far there seems to be very little interest in it. I would consider buying the very expensive 1982 set just to get another 1/2 oz gold coin.

Finally, the 1998 2/3 oz silver tiger NGC PF 69 UC. It's probably going to sell for a record price. The silver tigers are usually not good enough to be designated ultra cameo, but this is one of only 13 that earned the top grade. I suspect it will sell for around $500, but could easily go higher.

I'm going to be making some more changes in future articles in response to feedback from my readers. Please share any thoughts you have, so I can be well-informed as I make changes.

Since the best bargains I put in my articles never actually make it into the published version because someone grabs it before I'm done writing, I've decided to start posting my drafts into LBC's elite status forums. If you're an active forum user at LBC, the Pre-publication drafts forum will become visible to you, and you'll be able to see my drafts as I work on the article. That way, you'll be able to grab the best deals before the article gets published, and I won't feel like I'm wasting my time writing up articles where all the best stuff gets sold before I publish. If it's available to you for purchase in my drafts, you'll be able to get it before it's gone, and I won't have to remove it from the article before I publish.

I've been publishing more hastily lately to try to beat the market in getting the word out about great bargains. I think my quality has suffered because of that, with many coins being listed without much information about why I think they're great bargains. I do these articles in my spare time, so I'm still pressed to get them publish quickly, but if active LBC forum users have access to the pre-publication draft articles, I'll be able to spend a little more time polishing them, if possible.

If you can't see the pre-publication drafts forum, then it might help to post some comments on these articles. After a while of doing that, you will be able to see the forum. Plus, my articles will get better when I get your feedback. Thanks to all of you who have given me feedback so far.

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* Coins are the hot new investment
* How high will the Chinese coin market go?
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor

If you have questions about investing in any of these coins, please ask. If you find a coin that seems like it should be listed here, but isn't, please tell me about it. I frequently wait to list a coin here until I've had time to do the proper research on it that's needed for me to give you the basic facts on each coin. If you'd like to see info faster on a particular coin, I can make it a higher priority for you. I've noticed people don't like asking questions, because they don't want anyone else to know they're thinking of buying a particular coin. People don't want to talk about the coins they're interested in due to "coin snatchers" grabbing them. Competition for the investment-grade coins listed in these articles is fierce!

People are making a lot of money investing in the coins on these lists. You can see the coins that have sold here in the articles themselves, and you can see the coins making their buyers rich in the LBC makes me rich thread. It's exciting to find out who's buying the coins in these recommendation lists, and it's fun to share your successful buys!



Non-proof BU pandas



1990 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69

Last one sold cheaply at auction for $267.99. Prior to that, they could be had for around $60. Prices are exploding.

1994 1/2 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69

Where have all the 1/2 oz silver pandas gone? They used to be plentiful, but they're getting difficult to find. I'm not sure why they have disappeared, but prices are rising because of it. I suspect they're either being hoarded, or they're rarer than anyone has realized - maybe both.

1995 1 oz silver small twig large date panda NGC MS 69

1995 is a date that always seems to get a lot of attention, and it's no different for "common" BU coins. It turns out that there's three varieties of this date, and they all about as rare as the proof coins from 1989 to 1996. This variety here isn't the rarest, but it's as rare as coins that sell for a whole lot more money, and that makes it a good investment.

NEW 1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69

1996 1 oz silver small date panda PCGS MS 69

This coin was graded by PCGS before the date varieties were recognized. This appears to be the small date variety.

1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

1997 1/2 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

Where did all the 1/2 oz silver pandas go? They probably have low mintages than more recent date pandas, but they sell for about the same price. They've almost completely disappeared recently, so I wonder who is buying them up, and why? Is there some expert out there that knows something about them, and is taking them all off the market? That happens pretty frequently, and I'm calling them a good investment.

2008 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70

2010 pandas are the only date that always seem to be available at any time in a 70 grade. Older dates seem to have already been bought up. 2 of these 2008 coins have sold recently for increasing prices of $150 and $185. Naturally, this one is offered at a higher price.

NEW 2008 1 oz gold panda PCGS MS 70

This coin is listed in the wrong category, and might sell cheap. $1850 seems to be the going price for recent date 1 oz gold pandas in MS 70, but I think they should be valued much higher.

2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 69

Starting price is $0.99, but they usually sell for about $50 to $55. If you can get it for under $50, then you've got a good bargain. There were only 300,000 of these coins minted.

2009 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 70

Gold pandas in a 70 grade seem to be very underpriced compared to their silver counterparts. At a minimum, even a common date silver panda in a 70 grade will sell for 50% more than the same coin in a 69 grade. Recently, the premiums I have been seeing for all modern Chinese coins has increased from 50% to something more like 100% to 500%, depending on the coin, with rarer coins having higher premiums. Right now, the premium on these 2009 gold pandas offered for $1850 and $18 is only $300, which works out to about 20% of the total price of the coin, with 69 versions being offered and selling for around $1550.

If the bullion value is subtracted, then the figures become even more exaggerated. The 2010 silver pandas sell for about $60 in a 69 grade, with roughly $30 of that being the numismatic value. In 70 grade, they've been selling for about $120 lately, with about $90 of that being numismatic value. So, comparing apples to apples, and numismatic value to numismatic value, a 2010 silver panda in a 70 grade has about a 300% premium over coin with a 69 grade.

That means the 2009 coins listed here ought to be selling for far more money than they're being offered for, and that makes them a good investment. I feel this investment is more speculative, and dependent on the fickleness of the market, but as mundane an common as 2009 coins are, I think it presents a great opportunity to make high profits, with a little more risk than there is with the coins that I usually post, since we're entirely dependent on the market's demand for grade rarity,  which may or may not materialize. 2009 coins by themselves are not rare, so if nobody cares about the 70 grade, then the profits won't come. I think the risk is worth it, however, since I have been watching demand for 70 coins steadily and reliably increasing, as expected.

The mintage is 160,000 coins, with less than 1 in 3 coins receiving a 70 grade, and 200 total NGC coins graded MS 70. Since these coins are not rare, I would take profits on them once the premium reaches 100%, and put the earnings into rarer coins.

2010 1 oz silver pandas in MS 70

One of my readers has noticed that 69 graded 2010 coins have been moving up in value, while 70 graded 2010 coins have been dropping in value. The reason why is that both 69 and 70 coins are being put on the market at an increased pace by just one seller. 69 coins are easy to sell because they're reasonably cheap, and everyone would like to have one. 70 coins, on the other hand, require the right kind of discriminating buyer who appreciates the finest of everything. In other words, you can flood the market with 69's and the price will keep going up, but you can't do that with 70 coins that cost more than double the price of a 69, because most people will just take the 69 instead.

What that means is that, while 69 coins are increasing in value as expected, while 70 coins are dropping WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T, and that's a recipe for a good investment. Your strategy should be to buy up the 70 coins for bargain prices, and later take profits just one at a time to keep prices high. Anything you get for under $125 is a good buy, but you should be able to get one under $110.

Investment grade large date and small date pandas

Pricing information is very immature for panda varieties so here's a search, not necessarily a list of recommendations, that shows you what I might have put in this article if there were more information available. Pricing is erratic, with no one quite sure what a fair price should be, not even the sellers themselves. That usually means everything is selling too cheap. Good luck, and get them while you can.



Proof pandas



All the early proof pandas are what I like to call $10,000 coins, because I firmly believe within the next decade, you will have to pay $10k+ to obtain one. coins here meet at least 4 of the 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment. The only one they may not meet is the one about conservation, which is less important as long as the coin looks good despite its age, and not very important at all for gold, platinum, and palladium.

If any of the silver coins you buy have white spots when you receive them, you should probably return it for a refund. The white spots may be correctable through conservation, but that's the seller's problem, not yours.

Now that the issue of which silver proof panda coin is the rarest seems to have been settled, the 1994 and the 1996 have increased rapidly in value. However, it turns out that all three of the top coins - the 1994, 1995, and the 1996 - have similarly small actual mintages. There's no one coin that is dramatically rarer than any of the others. The information I have says that all of them have mintages of around 7000 to 8000 coins. So, buy them all up whenever you can, as your cash holdings allow.

NEW 1986 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

$150 for a GOLD proof panda with a mintage of only 10,000 is insane. I guess sellers haven't noticed me putting their gold proof pandas on this list yet. GRAB IT NOW!

NEW 1986 1/10 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1986 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1986 1/2 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1986 5 coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1987 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1987 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1988 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1989 5-coin gold proof panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1990 5-coin proof gold panda set NGC PF 69 UC

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The mintage is 20,000 and 212 are known graded 69 at NGC, and they have sold recently for $268, $305.02, and $299 (all from this list).

1990 1/10 oz platinum proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

With only 4500 coins minted, this coin is very rare. Add to that the fact that a huge portion, if not most of them, were used in jewelry or melted down, then there are probably very few surviving specimens in high grades. With a price of only $699, and half the mintage of a silver proof panda that sells for almost twice as much, this is a highly recommended investment, even though it's platinum, which is less popular than either silver or gold, and will make it more difficult to sell.

1991 5-coin proof gold panda set NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The official mintage for this coin is 20,000 but is probably lower, as is often the case for early coins. Prices have been steadily increasing, and this one has sold for $278 and $399 for a 69 specimen, and up to a whopping $738 for a damaged, ungraded coin. The $738 price was ridiculous, but it's a clue as to how crazy people get sometimes. The damage on the $738 coin is a torch sloppily engraved into it by a private coin dealer in Germany when the coin was first released. 3000 of them were damaged by the torch engraving, and word hasn't quite made it to all the collectors in China that the torch isn't supposed to be there. The Chinese dealers seem to be making good money by not telling them too!

So, we know that 3000 of these coins were damaged right when they were released, and I suspect that the Chinese dealers may be getting greedy, and they could be carving their own little torches into the surviving coins to try to score a $700+ price tag on a damaged coin. That means that, in addition to probably having a lower mintage than the official figures suggest, we already know that at least 3000 coins have been damaged. That makes this coin a good investment, because it doesn't cost more than coins that weren't damaged on a large scale.

I would grab this coin before word spreads that the little torch coins are actually damaged coins, and pristine coins are much rarer than people have thought. Only 109 have been graded a 69, which is about half as many as expected - but the coin does not cost twice as much! This coin is underpriced, and a good investment. Buy them when you find them.

1993 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

This is one of the most expensive sellers on ebay, but they always have the best coins. The other proof gold pandas I've listed here are priced way too low, but this one is much for fairly priced at $4985. It also happens to be one of the rarest with a mintage of only 2500! This coin will easily reach $10,000 levels within the next few years, or less. It could do it tomorrow! Once you've bought up all the bargains, get this coin. Rarities like this don't turn up often, so pay what you have to pay.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

NEW 1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The price of these has zoomed from around $450 to the present $1099 price on this listing. Sellers increased the price, and buyers keep buying them. If sellers don't drastically increase their prices, they won't have any inventory left. These are HOT!

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC



Rare gold BU pandas



1982 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 69

1982 gold panda set NGC MS 69

1982 1/2 oz gold panda NGC MS 69

I've been ignoring 1982 pandas for a long time, but I can't ignore them anymore. When they first came out near the end of the 1980's gold bubble, and before the numismatics boom of the late 1980's and 1990's, they were meant to be just ordinary bullion. China just wanted to make a gold bullion round to sell some of their gold production, so not much effort was put into the the design. The coins were frequently handled, dropped, scratched, dented, etc because no one thought they would end up being valuable in high grades.

It's technically only a medal, not a coin, because it has no face value. When it became more popular than expected, collectors requested that China put a face value on all the standard series pandas that followed. The Chinese government later retroactively insisted that the 1982 pandas are legal tender, though I don't know exactly what the face value is supposed to be.

The reason why a face value is so important is because legal tender anti-counterfeiting laws protect collectors by harshly punishing anyone that makes a fake. Medals have no such legal protection. However, China has had many governments during its history, and many different currencies. I have suspected that the details about whether a collectible metal disc is still legal tender or not matters comparatively little to Chinese people who have a long history of just using gold and silver in standard weights, instead of government-created things like dollars, yuan, renminbi, etc. However, medals without a face value have been slower to increase in value than the legal tender coins, so I haven't recommended them much in the past.

All that is changing. A few days ago, a medal sold for over $15,000 when it was expected to sell for $10,000. The bidding competition was unusually fierce, and coming from experienced collectors and investors with serious money to spend on coins. I have noticed the 1982 pandas have doubled in value during the last few months, and although they still don't seem to be increasing as fast as the other coins, I think that's actually an illusion. The other coins increase in spurts, as their popularity increases or decreases. The 1982 coins have always been popular, and they've been steadily increasing in value almost unnoticed.

When looking at the NGC grading populations for these "coins", it's clear they're rare in high grades. There are only 76 1/10 oz, 214 1/4 oz, 64 1/2 oz, and 79 1 oz coins graded in MS 69. Of those 4 sizes, the only one that isn't very rare is the 1/4 oz coin. The mintages for all of them are somewhat high compared to the mintages on the other coins I've been recommending, but for all but the 1/4 oz coin, they have good "grade rarity" and enormous popularity that makes them good investments. They're all extremely hard to find in a 69 grade, and complete sets are rarely seen. The 1/2 oz coin is the rarest overall, but the 1 oz coin has the most "grade rarity".

These prices are high, but where else can you find them in a 69 grade? There's just not enough of them out there. The 1 oz gold coin, for example, should have around 2500 coins on the entire planet that would grade 69 or better. That's NOT a lot of coins! I believe the 1982 pandas are a good investment. They may or may not perform as well as legal tender coins over the long term, but I think you'll have no trouble at all taking a profit and putting your money into something else if the high demand for medals does not continue. 1982 pandas are fortunately very easy to sell due to their high popularity.

1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69

The seller of this coin has a reputation for occasionally overpricing coins to ridiculous values. This coin was one of those coins. WAS! The value of this coin is rising so fast, $10,000+ is becoming a fair price to pay. It's investment grade, individual, and most importantly, it's available. The 1998 large date coins also happen to be the rarest of all BU pandas. I know who has these coins, and I know they're not selling until the sets reach $30,000+. That will probably happen within 18 months or less, and although people will tell you this coin is ridiculously overpriced now, in a few months it will seem like a bargain. Pay the price you have to pay, it's worth it. A complete set of 1/20 oz to 1 oz coins will someday cost you $100,000 or more. $10k for the largest piece in the set (but not the rarest) is no big deal. Buy them when you find them, pay what you have to pay, and hold them tightly.

1999 1 oz gold large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 69

This is an extremely rare panda with an extremely high price. It was initially offered for $5999, and I ignored it. The seller dropped the price to $4999, which makes me wiling to recommend it here in this list. This is so irritating with all of these high prices on rare pandas, but this seller is the only one that is offering this coin. So, whatever they want for it, that's the price. If you want the best investment-grade coins, you have to pay what you have to pay. Don't worry about overpaying, as long as you get the coin, and you can hold it for the long term. In due time, you will be RICHLY rewarded. When it comes time to sell, you will be glad you're selling a coin that you can ask any price you want for it.

2008 5 oz gold panda NGC MS 70

What a special coin this is! A monster 5 oz gold coin, rarely seen, and often held in tight-gripped wealthy hands. The mintage is only 1000 coins, and of those, less than 1 in 3 earn a 70 grade, with 22 known so far. Large size coins frequently have damage from handling by mint employees due to their heavy weight, which leaves deep marks with the slightest bump. The $11,050 starting price is only around double the raw gold value of the coin, which is an extraordinarily low numismatic premium for a coin as rare as this one. Obviously a good investment.



Rare lunar coins



1989 8 g gold lunar snake NGC PF 69 UC

1998 2/3 oz silver lunar scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC

Absolutely gorgeous coin, and dramatically undervalued. This coin has a mintage of only 6800, and will be selling for thousands of dollars very soon.

1999 1/2 oz gold lunar scallop plum blossom flower rabbit PCGS PR 69 DCAM

This coin is too expensive at $4300 - but it's the only one available. I posted about others that were available for half as much just a few days ago, but they're gone, so $4300 is your new price for those who weren't the lucky buyers of those other recommendations. This coin has a mintage of only 2300 coins, so I have no doubt you'll be able to sell it for $10k+ within a few years or sooner, though I do not recommend planning on selling it at that price because it could go FAR higher. You "overpay" now for a good coin just to get it, and then make your profits later. It's frustrating this price is so dramatically higher than the last coins that sold, but you won't get good coins if you don't pay what you have to pay to get them.

In short, is $4300 an unfair price to pay for a coin that was selling for around $2500 to $3000 only one week ago? No, it is not unfair at all. Expensive, yes, but if you have the cash, buy this coin. It will only cost you more later.



Other investment grade coins



1979 1/2 oz silver matte year of the child NGC MS 69

This is a great coin being offered at a fair price. Cheapskates keep offering low-ball prices, but this coin is worth every penny of the $15,000 asking price. The last coins sold for increasingly high values of $7000 to almost $10,000 recently, and none of them were graded. This coin has a high 69 grade, a low mintage, and is extremely popular. Don't be a cheapskate, pay the full asking price and grab it before someone else does. It is worth it.

1993 1/2 oz gold Mao Tse-Tung NGC PF 69 UC

This coin is expensive. It has an official mintage of 5000, but probably fewer pieces were actually minted. The pricing information out there says it should be priced about $1000 lower than it is. People have made many offers on this coin, trying to get it at a cheaper price. The problem is, the price information people are relying on is for ungraded coins. This coin has a high, investment-quality grade. I think that makes it worth the extra $1000. The unusually high number of offers made on this coin leads me to believe that the coin is very popular, and priced close to what people think it should sell for - but people are just being cheap. The best coins require aggressive buying, and $1000 here and there won't matter in the long run.

2008 1 oz silver olympic kite flying NGC PF 70 UC

2008 1 oz silver olympic goat jumping NGC PF 70 UC

2008 1 oz silver olympic shuttlecock NGC PF 70 UC

2008 1 oz silver olympic hoop rolling NGC PF 70 UC

Olympic coins have been gaining in popularity recently. These four coins each have a mintage of only 160,000. Of those, around half receive a 70 grade. Recent date pandas with 3 to 4 times that mintage sell for around $200. Given the surge in popularity of Olympic coins, I think these are underpriced at their auction starting price of $60, and Buy-It-Now price of $100. An ordinary ungraded BU panda with a mintage of 600,000 would sell for the $60 price easily, while a graded one in 69 grade would sell for $75 to $100 easily. I think these are good investments, considering their low price. This seller has dropped the price on these from previous listings that didn't sell for prices of $75 at auction and $125 Buy-It-Now.



Helpful searches



These are helpful searches for coins, not necessarily a list of recommendations, like the other items in this article. If you didn't see anything you like above, you may find coins on your own here that I have ignored or overlooked. I've included an ebay search widget to show you a sample of search results, when possible (they don't always work, so I leave them out).

I'm not going to be able to keep track of when stuff in these searches sell, so you'll have to let me know if you invest in something from these automated searches, so I can include it in the list of other coins that have sold. It would also be appreciated if you posted your coins in the LBC makes me rich thread. Thank you very much!

Search for Chinese coins in 69 grade

Search for Chinese coins in 70 grade

Search for all Chinese coins

Search for proof pandas

Search for panda coins of all types



Sold recommendations



Total recommendations sold: $65858.20

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #23 article, total: $2178

1996 1 oz silver small date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1996 1 oz silver large date panda NGC MS 69 for $85 Dec 31, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $449 Dec 31, 2010
1990 1/20 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $298 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $598 Dec 31, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $95 Dec 31, 2010
1989 1/4 oz gold proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $568 Dec 30, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #22 article, total: $600.11

2007 1/25 oz gold 2004 15 yuan proof panda NGC PF 70 UC for $119.99 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.38 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.76 Dec 30, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $100.88 Dec 30, 2010
2009 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary panda NGC MS 70 for $86.05 Dec 29, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #21 article, total: $3975.38

2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $101.88 Dec 29, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.50 Dec 29, 2010
1987 1/4 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $550 Dec 28, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1188 Dec 28, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799 Dec 28, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 28, 2010
2003 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $340 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #20 article, total: $4541.93

1990 1/2 oz gold proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $1298 Dec 28, 2010
2009 1 oz gold panda NGC MS 70 for $1850 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.38 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $106.50 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $104.05 Dec 28, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 X 10 for $1075 Dec 28, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #19 - Don't buy ungraded coins article, total: $2316.24

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $299 Dec 27, 2010
1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $399.99 Dec 27, 2010
2005 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 70 UC for $1295 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.05 Dec 27, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 27, 2010


Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments #18 article, total: $1716.48

1984 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1613.88 Dec 26, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.60 Dec 26, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-24 article, total: $2089.19 (passed $50k in sold recommended investments)

2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 24, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105.60 Dec 25, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $108.60 Dec 25, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $799.99 Dec 24, 2010
2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 24, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments and commentary - 2010-Dec-23 article, total: $1901.60

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $749 Dec 23, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $275 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $103.60 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $102.50 Dec 23, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-21 article, total: $6892.07

1985 27 g proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $1619 Dec 22, 2010
1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $199.99 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $268 Dec 22, 2010
1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $305.02 Dec 22, 2010
1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $300.02 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver pig NGC PF 69 UC for $970 Dec 22, 2010
1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $655 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $61 Dec 22, 2010
2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower dog NGC PF 69 UC for $280 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $102.50 Dec 22, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $105.54 Dec 22, 2010
1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $888 Dec 21, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 21, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-20 article, total: $8762.24

1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC for $402 Dec 20, 2010
1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 20, 2010
1997 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower ox PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $2988 Dec 20, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $3551 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $66.89 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $109.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $119 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $123.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $126.30 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $41.05 Dec 20, 2010

Coins sold from the Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-19 article, total: $16,422

1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 70 for $499.95 Dec 19, 2010
1988 1 oz silver dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $565.55 Dec 19, 2010
1988 8 g gold dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $1325 Dec 19, 2010
1989 1 oz gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $4100 Dec 19, 2010
1989 8 g gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $965 Dec 19, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69 for $6087 Dec 19, 2010
1999 1 oz gold small date panda for $2351.99 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $160 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $144.99 X 2 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97.50  Dec 19, 2010

Coins sold from older articles, total: $14,463

2008 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $150 Dec 18, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $42.05 Dec 18, 2010
2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary pandas NGC MS 69 X 10 for $510.95 Dec 16, 2010
1986 5 yuan soccer NGC PF 69 matte KM-140A for $3950 Dec 15, 2010
1987 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 12, 2010
1989 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $960 Dec 12, 2010
2000 1/2 oz gold scallop lunar dragon PCGS PF 69 DCAM for $5895 Dec 12, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105 Dec 10, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010 (LBC makes me rich)
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010
1983 silver proof panda for $1800 Dec 06, 2010
« Last Edit: 2010 Dec 31, 11:24:11 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2011 Jan 01, 08:50:53 am »

http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-American-Eagle-Gold-PROOF-4-Coin-Set-/120664494183?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c182a1067

one of the rarest american eagle. a whole set only selling for that price.

 Oh let me guess its not graded?

 http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-W-10-PCGS-PR69-DCAM-1-4-OZ-GOLD-American-Eagle-/170582223677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b77e2b3d

a piece of it selling for 399 ( that was already expensive) and u guys still belive china will go mad ?



How can you people follow so blindly that hype about these pandas or any modern china coins?Huh? If you can clearly see that in the USA coin market, that is already big and grown, stuff is selling for that kind of price rank.
You guys really belive a proof silver panda will reach 10+ Huh? u are buying lies for 600 and over 900 dollar.

The only time someone is making money is NOW the sellers! YOUR money with all the insane prices you guys are paying.

I just keep reading it will boom it will boom. Did you guys actualy seen any similar proves like i showed u up there from badon? Im talking about actual examples of the grown us coin market selling coins for amounts? you guys are paying amounts that  the american coin market never reached AND u thinkin china will go twice as high and its just the beginning??? Even if u compare and it goes three times as high that would actualy already be the prices u guys are paying NOW! You can only lose now. People who were in 4-5 years ago are now cashing.

If badon would really mean it, he wouldnt write his soapy article but actualy show up facts and whats most important proves! Everyone can talk nice and smooth. badon u might be proud of that talent but how about you do something usefull for the people with a own brain here and show us proves?
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« Reply #2 on: 2011 Jan 01, 11:48:56 am »

http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-American-Eagle-Gold-PROOF-4-Coin-Set-/120664494183?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c182a1067

one of the rarest american eagle. a whole set only selling for that price.

 Oh let me guess its not graded?

 http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-W-10-PCGS-PR69-DCAM-1-4-OZ-GOLD-American-Eagle-/170582223677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b77e2b3d

a piece of it selling for 399 ( that was already expensive) and u guys still belive china will go mad ?



How can you people follow so blindly that hype about these pandas or any modern china coins?Huh? If you can clearly see that in the USA coin market, that is already big and grown, stuff is selling for that kind of price rank.
You guys really belive a proof silver panda will reach 10+ Huh? u are buying lies for 600 and over 900 dollar.

The American coin market is probably the one that the emerging Chinese coin market is compared to. In making the comparison, the important things to keep in mind are the differences. For example, in the American set you listed here that sold for $3200, the rarest coin is the 1/2 oz coin with a mintage of 25,374. It sells for about $500 in a 69 grade. Interestingly, the rarest silver eagle has a higher mintage of 30,000 and sells for about $3000 in a 69 grade - which is 6 times more!

The reason why is because there's more interest in the silver coins than the gold. People start out collecting the silver coins because they can afford them easily. With more people choosing silver, there's more competition for the rarest coins.

Since most of the gold pandas cost much more than the $600 to $900 amounts you are complaining about, I have to assume you're referring to the rarest silver pandas. It seems you have made the mistake of comparing common American gold, with rare Chinese silver. The two could not be more different.

The only time someone is making money is NOW the sellers! YOUR money with all the insane prices you guys are paying.

Check the list of sold coins, and compare the prices they sold for to the prices they sell for now. Many of them have already increased in value quite a lot. People trust my recommendations because of my track record, and the fact that none of them are my own coins. It makes no difference to me whether someone buys the coins on my recommendation list or not. On top of that, most of the buyers of Chinese coins are not people who read this list. They are the ones who are driving prices higher. The readers of this article can only do their best to keep up, and get some coins before they all disappear in China.

I just keep reading it will boom it will boom. Did you guys actualy seen any similar proves like i showed u up there from badon? Im talking about actual examples of the grown us coin market selling coins for amounts? you guys are paying amounts that  the american coin market never reached AND u thinkin china will go twice as high and its just the beginning??? Even if u compare and it goes three times as high that would actualy already be the prices u guys are paying NOW! You can only lose now. People who were in 4-5 years ago are now cashing.

Your comparisons to the American coin market are wrong. See above.

If badon would really mean it, he wouldnt write his soapy article but actualy show up facts and whats most important proves! Everyone can talk nice and smooth. badon u might be proud of that talent but how about you do something usefull for the people with a own brain here and show us proves?

My track record speaks for itself. When I say it will go up, that's what it will do.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011 Jan 01, 11:57:53 am »








I've decided to start posting my drafts into LBC's elite status forums. If you're an active forum user at LBC, the Pre-publication drafts forum will become visible to you, and you'll be able to see my drafts as I work on the article. That way, you'll be able to grab the best deals before the article gets published, and I won't feel like I'm wasting my time writing up articles where all the best stuff gets sold before I publish. If it's available to you for purchase in my drafts, you'll be able to get it before it's gone, and I won't have to remove it from the article before I publish.


how does that actualy work? I didnt get it. Is is a seperate forum here?
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« Reply #4 on: 2011 Jan 01, 12:17:38 pm »

Yes, it's a separate forum, here at LBC. It's experimental, but hopefully you'll be able to access it since you're a regular participant at LBC:

http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?board=404.0

Let me know if you can't access it.
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« Reply #5 on: 2011 Jan 01, 12:19:15 pm »

Yes, it's a separate forum, here at LBC. It's experimental, but hopefully you'll be able to access it since you're a regular participant at LBC:

http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?board=404.0

Let me know if you can't access it.


are there supposed to be any drafts in it yet?
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« Reply #6 on: 2011 Jan 01, 12:56:56 pm »

No, not at the moment. The last draft was this article, and I moved it out of the drafts forum when it was ready. You can click "Notify" in the drafts forum, and you'll get an email notice when I start working on a new article. Not all drafts will go there first, probably just ones that are close to being ready, and ones like this one where it's important to to give special people access to them early.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
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« Reply #7 on: 2011 Jan 01, 02:24:58 pm »

In the last several months, there have been sellers of certified early (starting in 1955) issues of Fen, 2 Fen and 5 Fen coins of the Peoples Republic of China. The number of coins certified by NGC and PCGS is small and for some dates none have been certified. All the dates essentially look the same. Is there any investment potential here and any specific recommendations? Thanks.
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« Reply #8 on: 2011 Jan 01, 02:26:54 pm »

How can you people follow so blindly that hype about these pandas or any modern china coins?Huh? If you can clearly see that in the USA coin market, that is already big and grown, stuff is selling for that kind of price rank.
Hi useurbrain, Some of us would really love to follow you blindly as well, if you can articulate your business case as well as, or better than, badon. Please do share with us your expertise in US coins, and perhaps point out a few good investment opportunities or just bargains. I always love to make sure money on proven methods. I look forward to your additional articles, and thanks in advance.
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« Reply #9 on: 2011 Jan 01, 02:40:07 pm »

Hi badon, I just received a 2010 PCGS MS69 panda from Sirius Sports Cards, one of the biggest PCGS graded 2010 panda sellers on eBay currently, but the furs on these pandas were not as clearly defined linearly as other BUs I have. In fact they look blurry, unlike their photo on eBay, on/over their bodies. Other areas of the coin look excellent, and the temple is sharp and clearer than my BUs. Do you think PCGS could misgraded it, since the slab looks ok too, or is that quite common?

Unfortunately I don't do digital photos much. Otherwise I'd attach the photo here.
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