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Author Topic: Recommended modern Chinese coin investments - 2010-Dec-21  (Read 1740 times)
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badon
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« on: 2010 Dec 21, 02:40:08 pm »



I've reorganized the list into sections, and I've expanded the number of silver proof pandas listed here because I feel they are grossly underpriced, and among the best investments you can make. Many of the prices are "too high", but I've listed the cheaper ones too, if they're available. The reason why I decided to list the "overpriced" coins is because I think you should buy every one that comes available, if you can afford to. You're going to make a lot of money on them, and they're cheap enough that most people can afford to buy several (for now).

It's OK to "overpay" for a top quality investment coin, but only if you can afford to do that without putting all your cash into just one coin. Different coins rise in value at different times, and if your collection is diversified into several different types of coins, you'll be able to take profits and move your money into the most undervalued coins to maximize your investment return. Don't get stuck under one coin. You won't be happy with all your money tied up in one place, and you won't have any room to move when you need to raise some cash to take advantage of new opportunities.

Here's a list of recommendations from the last article that have sold:

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 20, 2010
1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC for $402 Dec 20, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $3551 Dec 20, 2010
1997 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower ox PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $2988 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $66.89 Dec 20, 2010 (wow!)
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97 Dec 20, 2010 (wow!)
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $109.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $119 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $123.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $126.30 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $41.05 Dec 20, 2010

Here's some recent articles of mine that can provide some guidance for investing in the current and coming market conditions:

* Wealth preservation: USA vs. China (By Zerosum)
* 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment
* 13 coin facts to learn for beginning investors of modern Chinese coins
* Don't be the "whale" that pays too much for an investment coin
* Modern Chinese coin commentary and market predictions - 2010-Dec-15
* Coins are the hot new investment
* What makes people buy up all the Chinese panda coins?
* Investing in rare modern Chinese coins, some questions answered
* Modern Chinese coin investment strategy
* Cash is king for 2011 - Get ready for the coming bargain hunt
* Foresight: Gold, silver, coins, etc will weaken after January or February 2011
* Rumor: Modern Chinese coin charts coming out soon
* Why does this business site talk so much about investments?
* The chess game of rich vs. poor
* My First Chinese Panda Coin Purchase (By Tamo42)

If you have questions about investing in any of these coins, please ask. If you find a coin that seems like it should be listed here, but isn't, please tell me about it. I frequently wait to list a coin here until I've had time to do the proper research on it that's needed for me to give you the basic facts on each coin. If you'd like to see info faster on a particular coin, I can make it a higher priority for you.



"Common" date pandas



2010 1 oz silver pandas in MS 70

One of my readers has noticed that 69 graded 2010 coins have been moving up in value, while 70 graded 2010 coins have been dropping in value. The reason why is that both 69 and 70 coins are being put on the market at an increased pace by just one seller. 69 coins are easy to sell because they're reasonably cheap, and everyone would like to have one. 70 coins, on the other hand, require the right kind of discriminating buyer who appreciates the finest of everything. In other words, you can flood the market with 69's and the price will keep going up, but you can't do that with 70 coins that cost more than double the price of a 69, because most people will just take the 69 instead.

What that means is that, while 69 coins are increasing in value as expected, 70 coins are dropping WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T, and that's a recipe for a good investment. Your strategy should be to buy up the 70 coins for bargain prices, and later take profits just one at a time to keep prices high. Anything you get for under $130 is a good buy, but you should be able to get one under $120.

2006 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69

This coin's starting price of $20 is less than the coin's silver value, even after shipping is added. I don't think this seller knows silver is closer to $30 now, and even ungraded common pandas sell for $5 to $10 above silver value. Graded ones sell for around $20 above silver value. This coin is worth at least $45 just for being a silver panda, but winning it for $65 or less will be a fair price for a graded older date panda.



Rare lunar coins



1995 1 oz silver pig NGC PF 69 UC

Prices are rising fast on this one. Ungraded, they're selling for about $300, when all the normal pricing information says they should be selling for around half that much. I think this coin should sell for about $400, but you might have to pay up to $600. It's popular, rare, and a great investment. This is one to grab, the mintage is only 8000! You'll probably be seeing this sell for $1000+ within 18 months, and maybe as much as $3000. It's another $10,000 coin. UPDATE: The 1988 1 oz silver dragon NGC PF 69 UC recommended yesterday sold for $565.55, which was significantly more than my $250 to $400 estimate. Expect people to notice, and bid even higher for this sought-after pig. It could go to $800, or more.

2006 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower dog NGC PF 69 UC

2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC

2010 1 oz silver scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC

These coins are called "scallop" because the grading companies don't understand their culltural significance. They're not really a scalloped shape, they're actually a plum blossom "flower" shape. The plum blossom is of great cultural significance in China because the plum tree blossoms amidst the death of late winter, even before the plum tree's leaves have sprouted. It's a revered sign of resilience, perseverence, life-after-death, and the indomitable beauty of China in the face of any hardship. No wonder, then, that the plum blossom is China's official national flower, and it is depicted frequently in all forms of art, both ancient and modern.

When I first became interested in the plum blossom coins, I had no idea why China chose to make such oddly shaped coins. It's much harder to make them that way, and that's probably why mintages are always far smaller than the "normal" coin types. Early gold "scallop" coins have mintages of only 2300 coins! With starting prices of about $3000 each for the ox and the tiger, they are an incredible bargain. Compare these to the 1990 2 oz gold dragon and phoenix coin, which is equally culturally significant, and has a similar mintage of 2500 coins - and sells for - are you sitting down? - $15,000 to $20,000!

I believe all the scallop coins are very underpriced, especially the silver coins. The recent-date scallop silver coins have mintages of 60,000 to 80,000 (depending on the source) but sell for only about $300. Compare that to a 2010 1 oz silver panda coin with a mintage of 1.5 million that's selling for $60 right now. When I calculate the mintages and numismatic value ratios, I estimate the silver scallop coins should be selling for around $500 to $600 right now. They're very underpriced at only $200 to $300, and that makes them a good investment.



Rare gold BU pandas



1998 1 oz gold large date panda NGC MS 69

The seller of this coin has a reputation for occasionally overpricing coins to ridiculous values. This coin was one of those coins. WAS! The value of this coin is rising so fast, $10,000+ is becoming a fair price to pay. It's investment grade, individual, and most importantly, it's available. The 1998 large date coins also happen to be the rarest of all BU pandas. I know who has these coins, and I know they're not selling until the sets reach $30,000+. That will probably happen within 18 months or less, and although people will tell you this coin is ridiculously overpriced now, in a few months it will seem like a bargain. Pay the price you have to pay, it's worth it. A complete set of 1/20 oz to 1 oz coins will someday cost you $100,000 or more. $10k for the largest piece in the set (but not the rarest) is no big deal. Buy them when you find them, pay what you have to pay, and hold them tightly.

1999 1 oz gold large date serif 1 panda NGC MS 69

This is an extremely rare panda with an extremely high price. It was initially offered for $5999, and I ignored it. The seller dropped the price to $4999, which makes me wiling to recommend it here in this list. This is so irritating with all of these high prices on rare pandas, but this seller is the only one that is offering this coin. So, whatever they want for it, that's the price. If you want the best investment-grade coins, you have to pay what you have to pay. Don't worry about overpaying, as long as you get the coin, and you can hold it for the long term. In due time, you will be RICHLY rewarded. When it comes time to sell, you will be glad you're selling a coin that you can ask any price you want for it.



Palladium pandas



2005 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 70

These have been selling for around $1400 lately, so this coin is underpriced at the Buy-It-Now price of $1295. It's been listed for a while now - The only reason it took me so long to find it, and the reason no one has bought it yet, is because it's listed in the the category for American coins. Whoops. Grab it! The label also incorrectly says MS, when it should say PF because the coin is a proof coin.

2004 1/2 oz palladium panda NGC PF 69 UC

The 1/2 oz palladium pandas in a 69 grade have been selling strongly at above $900 recently. This panda is a good buy at the $720 auction starting price, or the $800 Buy-It-Now price. Palladium is extremely popular right now worldwide, but especially in China.



Proof silver pandas

All the early silver proof pandas are what I like to call $10,000 coins, because I firmly believe within the next decade, you will have to pay $10k+ to obtain one. The silver proof pandas here meet at least 4 of the 5 criteria to determine if a coin is a good investment. The only one they may not meet is the one about conservation, which is less important as long as the coin looks good despite its age. If any of the coins have white spots when you receive them, you should probably return it for a refund. The white spots may be correctable through conservation, but that's the seller's problem, not yours.

Now that the issue of which silver proof panda coin is the rarest seems to have been settled, the 1994  and the 1996 have increased rapidly in value. However, it turns out that all three of the top coins - the 1994, 1995, and the 1996 - have similarly small actual mintages. There's no one coin that is dramatically rarer than any of the others. The information I have says that all of them have mintages of around 7000 to 8000 coins. So, buy them all up whenever you can, as your cash holdings allow.

1984 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC

This is a gorgeous, high grade specimen of an extremely rare panda. It has sold in the past for between $1600 and $2000, but the seller started this auction at only $1388.88. It appears the seller does not specialize in coins, and may not know the value of this coin. So, not only is it very rare, and in high grade, but it's also bargain priced! We'll see how high the auction finishes, now that the coin has been made famous in this article. I'm not sure if the previous sales were raw, or graded. Chances are, they weren't high grade specimens like this one. That means that this coin could easily sell for above $2000.

1985 27 g proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

Competition for early pandas is fierce. Ungraded examples of this coin sell for over $1200, and a 68 specimen has recently sold for a bargain price of $1325. Coins with a 69 grade are rarely seen, so this coin should sell for between $1300 and $2000, but could go higher. It has a clearly visible mark on the panda's forehead that is common for coins that have been sliding around in their original capsules too long, which will probably keep this coin from selling for some crazy price, but any early date coin from 1983 to 1985 that achieves a 69 grade will require aggressive bidding to obtain. Another two coins are being offered from a well-respected seller right now for almost $5000, so I won't be shocked if this coin exceeds my estimates. If you want to make a lower, more reasonable offer on them, here's a link to it: 1985 27 g silver panda NGC PF 69 UC

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1989 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1990 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

1990 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC


1990 proof pandas should sell for $200 to $350. They're getting harder and harder to find, and even though they're constantly going up in value, they're still very underpriced.

1991 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

This coin should sell for $200 to $250.

1992 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1994 1 oz silver proof panda PCGS PR 69 DCAM

1994 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

The price of these 1994 coins were increased by the seller from $749 to $888. The NGC holder is the better holder, so get that one first if you can. There's a little secret floating around about these coins. The 1994 proof is the rarest of the proof pandas! At first, people thought it was the 1996 because that's what the official mintage indicated. Then, it became clear that the 1995 was rarer than the 1996. But now, it appears the 1994 is the rarest of them all.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

I've decided to list this panda, even though it's the highest priced one on ebay right now at $749. I believe this coin is such a great investment, you should buy them up when you get the chance, even if the price is high.

1995 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

This is one of the rarest of silver pandas. It should sell for between $450 and $750, but I think it'll go for about $550. This is terribly underpriced because the official mintage figures say it has a mintage of 10,000 which is only the SECOND lowest, after the official mintage of 8,000 for the 1996. In fact, the actual mintage for this coin is much lower.

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC

This is one of the rarest silver pandas. It's hard to find at a reasonable price. It was most recently offered for around $750, but this price at $569 is much more reasonable, so I've decided to list it here. When they appear at auction, they've been selling for around $470, and this particular seller has accepted best offers of around $475. They were selling for around $150 just a few months ago! These are an AWESOME investment.



Other investment grade coins



1979 1/2 oz silver matte year of the child NGC MS 69

This is a great coin being offered at a fair price. Cheapskates keep offering low-ball prices, but this coin is worth every penny of the $15,000 asking price. The last coins sold for increasingly high values of $7000 to almost $10,000 recently, and none of them were graded. This coin has a high 69 grade, a low mintage, and is extremely popular. Don't be a cheapskate, pay the full asking price and grab it before someone else does. It is worth it.

Sold recommendations

1996 1 oz silver proof panda NGC PF 69 UC for $569 X 2 Dec 20, 2010
1983 1 g gold Marco Polo NGC PF 69 UC for $402 Dec 20, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower tiger NGC PF 69 UC for $3551 Dec 20, 2010
1997 1/2 oz gold scallop plum blossom flower ox PCGS PR 69 DCAM for $2988 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $66.89 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $109.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 70 for $119 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $123.50 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $126.30 Dec 20, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $41.05 Dec 20, 2010

1988 1 oz silver dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $565.55 Dec 19, 2010
1998 1/2 oz gold small date panda NGC MS 69 for $6087 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $160 Dec 19, 2010
2001-D 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 69 for $144.99 X 2 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 19, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $97.50  Dec 19, 2010
1999 1 oz gold small date panda for $2351.99 Dec 19, 2010
1989 1 oz gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $4100 Dec 19, 2010
1989 8 g gold snake NGC PF 69 UC for $965 Dec 19, 2010
1988 8 g gold dragon NGC PF 69 UC for $1325 Dec 19, 2010

2010 1 oz silver panda NGC MS 69 for $42.05 Dec 18, 2010
1986 24 g silver empress of china clipper ship NGC MS 70 for $499.95 Dec 18, 2010

Ten 2009 1 oz silver 30th anniversary pandas NGC MS 69 for $510.95 Dec 16, 2010
1986 5 yuan soccer NGC PF 69 matte KM-140A for $3950 Dec 15, 2010
2000 1/2 oz gold scallop lunar dragon PCGS PF 69 DCAM for $5895 Dec 12, 2010
1987 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $800 Dec 12, 2010
1989 5 oz silver panda NGC PF 69 UC for $960 Dec 12, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $105 Dec 10, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010
2010 1 oz silver panda PCGS MS 70 for $125 Dec 08, 2010
1983 silver proof panda for $1800 Dec 06, 2010
« Last Edit: 2010 Dec 21, 04:17:31 pm by badon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 2010 Dec 21, 04:15:00 pm »

After this was posted, I removed some things from this list that are no longer competitive with the other items in terms of investment quality. Some sellers have been increasing their prices shortly after their coins appear in this list, and some coins have increased in value to the point where other coins are better places to put your money.
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« Reply #2 on: 2010 Dec 22, 05:25:06 pm »

I have a question. All the sellers that are selling, lets say the rare silver pandas, 1994 or 1996 or even 1990 pandas. These are 10k pandas, if ur predicition comes true.( What i really hope)

They are the experts, why are they selling them for "nothing"? They could keep them and sell them in 10 years or even later? And make a lot more money right?


Is a slight toning on a Silver (panda) coin a reason not to buy it?
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« Reply #3 on: 2010 Dec 22, 05:39:53 pm »

Toning is frowned upon right now, but in the long run, it won't matter. If you find a nice coin with toning, as long as the toning is any color EXCEPT white spots, it's OK. The white spots cannot be removed by conservation, but the toning can, if you decide to have it done.

The sellers of these coins know all the things I'm telling you about. The reason why they sell is because they need to have an income so they can feed themselves and their families. They can't just stop eating for 10 years! Also, they're buying up these coins when they find them too, so they make their profits, and they keep a few coins for their own collections too.

The earnings they gain are less from the coins themselves, and more from the time and expertise they put into them. When an investor buys, you make your money on the coins themselves.

I have known MANY dealers who have regretted selling their coins. They have been forced to greatly increase their prices so they can keep buying coins to replenish their stocks. That's why I've been saying lately that it's OK to "overpay" because that's very often the best way to get the coins. The dealers are slowly taking control of the market right now, and if you wait, the coins will just be more expensive later.
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« Reply #4 on: 2010 Dec 22, 05:42:01 pm »



The reason why they sell is because they need to have an income so they can feed themselves and their families. They can't just stop eating for 10 years!


^^true
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« Reply #5 on: 2010 Dec 22, 05:42:43 pm »

Are u posting any update on the recommended articles today? Or u gonna give it a rest today?
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« Reply #6 on: 2010 Dec 22, 06:02:54 pm »

I'm working on an update right now. It probably won't be ready to publish for another 4 to 6 hours. I'm trying to get it done in my spare time today. Maybe if I'm lucky I will get it done faster.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
Coin, medal, whatever!
Coin storage advice.
FreeArc is amazing.
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