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Author Topic: MCC LIST #183: 2014, collectors, pullback 9 reasons, food, coin-medal-whatever  (Read 74336 times)
LBC3716, badon, perfulator, davidt3251 (+ 1 Hidden) and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.
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« Reply #3420 on: 2015 Sep 03, 09:23:57 pm »

Hey, that's a precious metals dealer! What if their inventory of these is the reason why they disappeared from the market so quickly?

They Perth Mints and NZ mints distributors NOT pure precious metals dealers. I think they want to expand products range. Only 1 in stock as I try to order online.
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« Reply #3421 on: 2015 Sep 03, 09:36:56 pm »


1991 10th Anniversary Panda Set carved box/coa   $1,799.95     750 sets?      Ebay 111762370786.....rarely seen set in OMP.......


Edit by badon: Linkify.

Bad condition and price too high
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RhodiumPanda
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« Reply #3422 on: 2015 Sep 04, 01:39:34 am »

Re: Big Gold, CBB & Dollar Future

Badon – I wasn’t pushing big Panda gold for myself or anyone worth less than $50 Million.   I just think it has some potential (the real low mintage ones) and is better than many numismatic items (most Perth Mint, fully valued older coins, even some MCC that have already gone up 50X or more)– however large gold pandas have nowhere near the % potential of these low mintage recent medals (mint & even private Chinese)(or Rhodium from these levels for that matter).   There are hardcore gold panda collectors just like silver ones (just not near as many) and will probably be more.  In the past there wasn’t a parallel paper garbage universe of stocks worth $60Trillion (12 X as much as all the gold on the planet above ground (nearly 500 X as much as the silver) that will look for momentum when it panics.  Collectors collect what they love – you are correct, but hedge funds, big dollar speculators, etc. chase momentum and could blow the lid off everything with their $Trillions available without regard for collector sentiment.   It won’t be limited to only silver and brass.  Gold pandas have the longest streak of all the metals in pandas.  (Not that I ever want to really chase gold pandas beyond some pandas at gold bullion prices. – Gold is only for some insurance stability – not to get rich on (like undervalued low mintage medals and Rhodium).

Your brass / copper coin list of benefits makes sense (2/3 of it outside of China, too).   Buying super low mintage Brass for $200 or less makes sense (although an equal mintage silver panda for the same price makes more sense because of the greater collection continuity among   pandas and other series (not to mention $14 more metal).   Paying $8888 for a Brass panda, however, does not make any more sense than an equal mintage large Gold.  Might be stable, but not much upside without hyperinflation.   The numistatic premium will probably not be more stable than the gold value, however.

Wafdawg – (Congrats on the nickels – I had $30K of them (nearly 3.5 tons)– logistical hassle (getting them and liquidating, but was covered for inflation or deflation).  I’ve liquidated about $5K so far.  I’ll keep at least $5K, however – but will take a while to get there.   That money is better put into Rhodium, Low mintage MCC & medals and even silver at this point.

Wafdawg – Your points are essentially correct, individually, but if you step back and apply the same historical and future analysis to your present facts/observations (in the same manner that you and everyone on here has with MCC and medals – it is obvious that things will change (and the rate of change is accelerating).   Every paper system collapses in history (China’s had 4 collapses of their own – that is why they are smarter than Americans on understanding wealth (as are the Germans due to Weimar) (The US screwed the Chinese in the 30’s on their silver standard, ironically).   The structural requirement to continuously expand the debt just to avoid collapsing the economy (US & Japan are the worse, but all require it)  guarantees an eventual collapse. 

Also:  China, Russia, Brazil and India (all for starters – not to even mention the Mideasterners, etc.) want to get rid of the Dollar as the world reserve currency.  This is a minimum of 10 X the population of the US and 5 X the resources all patiently scheming against it.  Not many Jews thought things could change from their peaceful lives in the 1930’s in Germany.  Those that got suspicious and got out of their system survived.  (An extreme example, too and hopefully the violence and mayhem won’t come along with the coming currency issue).   Basic laws of economics / physics / nature all say if something is increased in supply nearly infinitely – its value goes to zero.  Even your example included the Federal Reserves criminal destruction of 97% of the dollar in 102 years.   The next 97% won’t take near that long.  Pandamonium will probably be right – it is just a question of when (unfortunately – I don’t want it, but I’m not going to be an ostrich and not prepare).  Almost no one I talk to in person ever thinks it can change. 

Oh - I agree with you on Bitcoin - utterly worthless wealth storage and a combination of the worse money qualities rolled into one - perfect tracking of the activity, government angst for it, volatility and less inherent value than even paper - same as computer digits.  The only benefit is theoretical ease of payment oversees with potentially less pass-through.  Badon was correct about what he/we need Bitcoin like.
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« Reply #3423 on: 2015 Sep 04, 03:15:04 am »

from shanghai mint
what would be a reasonable price for this set?

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« Reply #3424 on: 2015 Sep 04, 03:58:32 am »

Nanjing 2013 copper God of Wealth coins at a dirt cheap price in NGC 68 grade: 181857145352, 161815154668. If you just like the beauty of these, the low price is an excellent way to get them in your collection. The price is so low that I think they're actually a decent investment too.
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« Reply #3425 on: 2015 Sep 04, 06:00:55 am »

Re: Big Gold, CBB & Dollar Future

Badon – I wasn’t pushing big Panda gold for myself or anyone worth less than $50 Million.   I just think it has some potential (the real low mintage ones) and is better than many numismatic items (most Perth Mint, fully valued older coins, even some MCC that have already gone up 50X or more)– however large gold pandas have nowhere near the % potential of these low mintage recent medals (mint & even private Chinese)(or Rhodium from these levels for that matter).   There are hardcore gold panda collectors just like silver ones (just not near as many) and will probably be more.  In the past there wasn’t a parallel paper garbage universe of stocks worth $60Trillion (12 X as much as all the gold on the planet above ground (nearly 500 X as much as the silver) that will look for momentum when it panics.  Collectors collect what they love – you are correct, but hedge funds, big dollar speculators, etc. chase momentum and could blow the lid off everything with their $Trillions available without regard for collector sentiment.   It won’t be limited to only silver and brass.  Gold pandas have the longest streak of all the metals in pandas.  (Not that I ever want to really chase gold pandas beyond some pandas at gold bullion prices. – Gold is only for some insurance stability – not to get rich on (like undervalued low mintage medals and Rhodium).

Your brass / copper coin list of benefits makes sense (2/3 of it outside of China, too).   Buying super low mintage Brass for $200 or less makes sense (although an equal mintage silver panda for the same price makes more sense because of the greater collection continuity among   pandas and other series (not to mention $14 more metal).   Paying $8888 for a Brass panda, however, does not make any more sense than an equal mintage large Gold.  Might be stable, but not much upside without hyperinflation.   The numistatic premium will probably not be more stable than the gold value, however.

Wafdawg – (Congrats on the nickels – I had $30K of them (nearly 3.5 tons)– logistical hassle (getting them and liquidating, but was covered for inflation or deflation).  I’ve liquidated about $5K so far.  I’ll keep at least $5K, however – but will take a while to get there.   That money is better put into Rhodium, Low mintage MCC & medals and even silver at this point.

Wafdawg – Your points are essentially correct, individually, but if you step back and apply the same historical and future analysis to your present facts/observations (in the same manner that you and everyone on here has with MCC and medals – it is obvious that things will change (and the rate of change is accelerating).   Every paper system collapses in history (China’s had 4 collapses of their own – that is why they are smarter than Americans on understanding wealth (as are the Germans due to Weimar) (The US screwed the Chinese in the 30’s on their silver standard, ironically).   The structural requirement to continuously expand the debt just to avoid collapsing the economy (US & Japan are the worse, but all require it)  guarantees an eventual collapse. 

Also:  China, Russia, Brazil and India (all for starters – not to even mention the Mideasterners, etc.) want to get rid of the Dollar as the world reserve currency.  This is a minimum of 10 X the population of the US and 5 X the resources all patiently scheming against it.  Not many Jews thought things could change from their peaceful lives in the 1930’s in Germany.  Those that got suspicious and got out of their system survived.  (An extreme example, too and hopefully the violence and mayhem won’t come along with the coming currency issue).   Basic laws of economics / physics / nature all say if something is increased in supply nearly infinitely – its value goes to zero.  Even your example included the Federal Reserves criminal destruction of 97% of the dollar in 102 years.   The next 97% won’t take near that long.  Pandamonium will probably be right – it is just a question of when (unfortunately – I don’t want it, but I’m not going to be an ostrich and not prepare).  Almost no one I talk to in person ever thinks it can change. 

Oh - I agree with you on Bitcoin - utterly worthless wealth storage and a combination of the worse money qualities rolled into one - perfect tracking of the activity, government angst for it, volatility and less inherent value than even paper - same as computer digits.  The only benefit is theoretical ease of payment oversees with potentially less pass-through.  Badon was correct about what he/we need Bitcoin like.





Rhodium Panda you understand and know what is coming down the pike that none of us can stop.   Many of my posts are hated.   Why?   Fear.   I grew up w/ military and was taught since a toddler to never have fear.   When fear comes into my mind or heart i remove it.   It gives me clarity to make decisions.   I think differently and come to a conclusion differently then the sheeple.    Many have explained to me their next move or maybe a business decision.   I tell them, isn't your decision based on fear?   They take a few minutes to think about it before agreeing w/ me and adjusting their decision.    The hard core Bible believers and brave people i grew up w/ during/after the Korean war are retired or deceased.   The Pacific NW society is fear based and most cannot ID the fear in their minds/hearts.   This leads to incredibly stupid decisions and these sheeple are guided by fear stupidity.   A few here know i turn bad cops in for rape/crimes.   Who else does that?   I even went public w/ my information.   I have no fear of police or Federal Agents because i have never been a criminal.    Sad to see how the US is no longer the home of the brave.   The fire of Faith from our Bible gives people the will to fight the wicked.   The Bible has been trashed so the wicked have taken over and we will pay a huge price.   The TPP agreement is not a trade agreement, it is a subjugation agreement.    I ask all that read this to stop to think what makes their heart tick.   If fear is a big part of it or small then remove it. 
I enjoy all your posts Rhodium Panda so keep it up as your explanations are much better than mine......
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« Reply #3426 on: 2015 Sep 04, 07:53:26 am »

for those interested, a set of 69's Pagodas, WITH BOX and COA.  Pandamonium is going fall off his chair in excitement. lol.

http://www.coinvault.com/newchina.htm

« Last Edit: 2015 Sep 04, 07:58:28 am by barsenault » Logged

My posts are for information and education purposes, although I MAY (more than likely) buy/sell/hold the MCC I write about, so I may not be unbiased in readers eyes. Contact a coin dealer or financial advisor before acting on what I have posted. I am passionate about Chinese medals. If that gets misconstrued as being a Pumper and Dumper. I'm guilty as charged. Thanks, barsenault, iluvmysilver, lovenoah and www.chinesemedals.com
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« Reply #3427 on: 2015 Sep 04, 08:48:27 am »

pandamonium, those are both excellent examples of small sets or series. In the case of the 1982 panda, the "interesting-ness" comes from being part of a small set of gold pandas from the same year, but with different weights, and with the added benefit of being a key date. In that case, the high price of gold plays little role in the numismatic value of the set.

For the big gold lunars, that is another small set or series play, because lunars are always collectible in maximum 12 coin sets. If anything has the potential to be a good investment as big gold, it's the lunars and other coins that are collectible in small sets. A famous example are the invention and discovery big gold sets. If I remember correctly, they had something like 2 to 5 coins in the big gold set, and every time they are offered they sell for a higher price than before. The last sale price that comes to mind was around $400'000!

1982 isnt really rare enough to be a key for me.

(at NGC, # graded, 68/69/70)
1oz: 930, 376/127/0
1/2oz: 470, 156/182/0
1/4oz 847, 293/409/0
1/10oz: 790, 279/387/1

If you consider a 68 to be investment grade, then for every other year of the 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz and 1/10oz gold panda from 1990-1999, there are less graded 68+69+70 than the same sizes 1982 has in 68+69+70.

But some of those pandas are less than half the price of the 82. A 1990 SD set is about half the price of a 1982, with 1/20 oz more gold and the 1990 SD 1/2 is only 73, 13/54/1 at NGC.

In this situation the numismatic premium of the 1982 is not supported by grading numbers. Its more of a 1st year phenomenon, with the missing denominations-so its actually a medal.

But the 1982s are always available, due to their apparently larger mintage. The same cannot be said about many of the other keys like the 1995 1/2 and the 1998 LD 1/2. In a falling market, as we have, I think MCC sellers may sell the item which has less justification for its higher numismatic premium.

Most gold pandas from the early 90s have a fraction of the 82s graded.

For example, in the 1oz only 1998 and 1999 have more
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DISCLAIMER: My posts are for entertainment (kind of like a Jon Stewart Daily Show for MCC), informational and educational purposes ONLY and MUST NOT be used for investment or trading purposes. I am not a coin (or medals) dealer. My ebay listings are for my personal sales and sometimes my personal sales overlap with content of my posts. Therefore, before acting on anything I have written, contact a professional coin dealer. If you are not willing to agree to this, do not read my posts.
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« Reply #3428 on: 2015 Sep 04, 11:45:59 am »

That is NOT my pagoda set, in case you are wondering.
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My posts are for information and education purposes, although I MAY (more than likely) buy/sell/hold the MCC I write about, so I may not be unbiased in readers eyes. Contact a coin dealer or financial advisor before acting on what I have posted. I am passionate about Chinese medals. If that gets misconstrued as being a Pumper and Dumper. I'm guilty as charged. Thanks, barsenault, iluvmysilver, lovenoah and www.chinesemedals.com
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« Reply #3429 on: 2015 Sep 04, 01:09:22 pm »

1982 isnt really rare enough to be a key for me.

(at NGC, # graded, 68/69/70)
1oz: 930, 376/127/0
1/2oz: 470, 156/182/0
1/4oz 847, 293/409/0
1/10oz: 790, 279/387/1

If you consider a 68 to be investment grade, then for every other year of the 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz and 1/10oz gold panda from 1990-1999, there are less graded 68+69+70 than the same sizes 1982 has in 68+69+70.


davidt3251, thanks for your views on what you consider good investment based on rarity.  Those are certainly something to pick up, but being the first means a lot, at least to me.  I don't collect gold pandas, but silver ones.  However, if I should pick one gold to go along with my collection, it certainly would be the one who kicked it off. So now I do have a 82 68 on top of my collection, and I guess many others feel the same way about it. So you can argue then I'm not an investor, but rather a collector, and you're probably right, lol...   Anyway, intersting facts davidt3251
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