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Author Topic: MCC LIST #183: 2014, collectors, pullback 9 reasons, food, coin-medal-whatever  (Read 74284 times)
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« Reply #3410 on: 2015 Sep 02, 11:01:26 pm »

Who says coin investors aren't gamblers? 

How to get profit if no gamble .............
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« Reply #3411 on: 2015 Sep 02, 11:40:26 pm »

http://www.1silver1.com/shop/2014-lovely-pandas-60-grams-silver-copper-coins-ngc-graded-pf69/

Is this wrong pricing or they are not aware of the market price.

Nanjing silver and cooper panda NGC PF69 at SGD447.75. I have quite a bit of those. Otherwise I will buy it

Hey, that's a precious metals dealer! What if their inventory of these is the reason why they disappeared from the market so quickly?
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« Reply #3412 on: 2015 Sep 03, 01:37:56 am »

Re: Precious Metals in General along with MCC&M

Badon – getting out of PGM’s in 2008 was definitely the right move – good job on your timing.  It is time to get back in now (esp. with Pt down 60% and Rh down  92% since then (Pd not as much as it is ironically about at its 2008 peak).   These drops are in spite of $80 Trillion of additional toilet paper currency printed or borrowed and sloshing around in the world since then.

Getting out of Silver and Gold in 2011 was definitely the right move.  It is getting to be time to get back in now (with silver down 70% and gold down 42%).   I didn't get out completely but did reduce and trade for other real wealth items all the way up.

Remember in late 2008-early 2010, precious metals moved up 50-80% in this period while MCC did squat (they started taking off in late spring, 2010 before exploding (along with silver and gold to a lesser extent the next year).  If this cycle repeats you can get far more MCC later.   It may not rhyme this time however (esp. with these ultra low medals that weren't around back then).   I traded about ½ of my dad's (by then mom's) rare US coins in late 2008 early 2009 for precious metals after metals crashed because the rare US coins didn't drop at all and even the common ones dropped maybe 5% while silver and Palladium crashed 60%.

You missed my point about big money not in MCC yet and thus big gold MCC (even the 2010-2011 massive roundup was probably driven by 1/100 of 1% of US, HK and European investors (and an even lower % of Chinese investors).  It was a cult movement.  No one knew what the hell I was talking about locally; and only a couple of dealers finally understood, but long after I educated them and the run up already was done.  They scoffed earlier.  1/100 of 1% of investors are in MCC, even now.  90% of investors have stocks.   (Even Gold is maybe 10% and silver 5%) This bodes well for MCC in the future and particularly poorly for stocks (which is what is to be expected after a 41 year bull market in stocks).

When the big money gets into MCC – the gold pandas (esp. larger rarer ones) will have to join the run-up to absorb even 1/100 of 1% of the money in overpriced stocks.  There is no way that a 10K mintage 1983 silver panda will go to $100K while a 68 mintage gold kilo panda will stay at $40K with 900 times the metal $ value and 150 times more rarity.   They are too expensive for the common man and that is why they haven’t moved because only the fringe cult people like us (but closer to common man) are in MCC (so far).   Big rare gold probably has as much potential going forward as (now) fully priced big silver and proof pandas.   (Recent super low mintage medals will probably beat both, however in % terms – you have all convinced me of that).  Big gold MCC is too much money in one chunk for me – but I can see it joining the party in the future.

When even the common 3000 mintage big gold pandas sell for a 50% premium (thanks for that alert – I have that coin although not with the box, etc. – I only paid generic bullion price for it); then you know the 68 mintage gold kilos can explode when billionaires get involved in MCC.
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« Reply #3413 on: 2015 Sep 03, 01:57:06 am »

Badon's survival tangent:

I agree 100% about keeping food (I keep roughly 1 year of canned soups, beans, chili, tuna, veg/fruits and cereal – all stuff that I get cheap and eat anyway (I just have to stay on top of the stock rotation)!   I also keep 200+ fifths of liquor (trading stock for the masses, never goes bad and can’t be crapped out by Bernanke, Yellen, Draghi or Abe like cash - requires work/energy/equipment).  (And nearly 1 year of the 25-30 year life survival canned foods).  And of course some weapons/ammo is mandatory.

This is smart and cheap insurance in advance, but it is peanuts compared to wealth preservation with metals (and MCC).   You are correct about selling big chunks of PM's being hard – but the same is true (even worse) with high priced individual MCC (I can’t get anywhere near the value out of those from local dealers (and have to ship to major dealers or Ebay), unlike all the PM’s (one local dealer bought 1000oz silver bars at the same price/oz as rounds, even in late 2010).

I wasn’t talking about silver and gold for spending in disaster scenarios; but they are good for that (gold for houses, silver for smaller needs).

I agree with Pandamonium’s general outlook at least where the currency is concerned (whether Obama is still a Muslim isn’t as important as the fact that he is an utterly incompetent socialist (at best) and a full-blown traitor to the U.S. at worst.   However; both parties are in bed with the banker cronies  (including the richest (and first billionaire welfare recipients - Jamie Dimon And Lloyd Blankfein) and the biggest wealth transfer in world history that has been going on the past 7 years.  With cronies/bankers/insiders/CEO’s feeding at the trough on the high end and Obama putting everyone on the low end at the trough (with it all being put on the massive debt tab) the currency is utterly doomed.   Even Trump’s wealth is welfare (courtesy of the banks forgiving / reducing his loans when he was $100’s of millions underwater in the early 90’s (instead of foreclosing like the average Joe would have gotten) and then these same banks were bailed out with TARP and other bank welfare programs in 2008-2012 – meaning that Trumps’ entire net worth (just like Dimon’s and Blankfein’s was pulled out of the 18T$ national debt (and $60T total US debt).  Hopefully the currency collapse will just be a re-boot and not total mayhem that Pandamonium (and Badon to a lesser extent envision).

Either way – Gold and Silver are the best things to hold for the re-boot.  They are the only things that have been money for 5000 years.   Even ancient Roman coins haven’t generally kept up with inflation and in some cases are worth peanuts.   The PGM’s have more potential to get rich (and MCC’s / MCM’s even more so (similar to Rhodium) , however their track records aren’t proven over dozens of historical paper currency collapses / wars / mayhem etc, like Gold and Silver.  PGM's have been around less than 200 years and MCC's roughly 35 years or less.

I agree with Wafdag on gold (silver qualifies, too – with more potential).   I also agree with Wafdag that 90% silver isn’t that good for trading (due to the ignorance and inability for most people to understand metal values and multiples of face value and a much lower face value to confuse things for them).   I still have 90% of all types, but mainly for the trading opportunities towards bullion when it gets a 50% or more premium (like during the Y2K scare in early 1999).

1 oz. silver rounds are the best trading stock for bad times and have inherent value/money making potential at all times.   Everyone in the world understands what 1oz of silver is (or can be trained to understand in 10 seconds).  They are low enough in value to buy most things.   (silver dimes at .072 oz. are the lowest common unit of silver – but that is the only trading advantage).   Everyone should have at least 1000 silver rounds as a core holding (unless you are fresh out of college with little money).

Ironically, I bought a bunch of nickels in 2011 (with some of the silver sales).  The metal was worth 7cents at that point.  That way I was protected for hyperinflation or deflation (which is what happened, so far).   Now they are only worth about 3cents, but I didn’t lose anything (cost 5cents, being sold for 5cents) (it would have been much less work keeping it in the bank!  Lately I’ve been liquidating them to get 2-3 times as much silver as I sold to get them.  They need to go up 66% from this point before they can appreciate, unlike Silver and Rhodium.   

The nickels will be poor man’s silver in the future (they were nearly there in 2011.   The metal is a little too cheap for it now.   One roll of nickels will always buy 1 loaf of bread – similar value to a silver dime, and with similar problems (face value vs. metal value).

Here is the reason everyone should have some precious metals as core holdings (more when they are way down in price, like currently):
The entire world needs/uses/requires precious metals (unlike stocks, real estate in specific countries  or MCC (although far more people will want MCC in the future – I agree).  Currency is simply IOU’s and a massive game of musical chairs.   Precious metals require land, energy, equipment, technology, sweat and time to extract and have inherent value and uses.
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« Reply #3414 on: 2015 Sep 03, 04:00:06 am »

I have read a lot of posts and have gathered much insight on these LBC forums.  In the past I was able to take advantage of some cheap eBay auctions which were first posted here and also to track some of the trends that were first presented here as well.  FWIW, this is my take on the MCC market and the overall market in general.

On the MCC:

1.  I think investors and collectors should understand they are speculating on numismatic premiums when it comes to new releases with limited mintage. New issues have no track record.  For every winner there is a loser. To say that the limited mintage gold coins are iliquid is the understatement of the century.  This is a very thinly traded market.  With that being said, there are certainly opportunities to flip some coins for profit or to buy coins which quickly appreciate than level off and appreciate later at a more methodical rate.

2. CBB (China, Brass, Bronze) - Again I would be careful to not over invest in these coins which have high numismatic premium with essentially zero intrinsic value. The added risk is also that they are new releases and low mintage.  In my opinion these are pure flips.  I used to sell a lot of Casascius Brass Bitcoins.  I've sold some for as high as $5k (the 2011 error coin) graded by ANACS MS66. I quickly converted my bitcoin (at the time around $800) into USD and bought gold and silver pandas. These Casascius error bitcoins can probably still fetch like $1500 so I'm glad I did not hold onto them.  I think those who are selling CBB rather than those buying them will be the ultimate winners.

3. Overall market - I don't believe we have experienced deflation yet.  I think precious metal prices will remain steady to weak as there is no catalyst to send them higher.  US stock market will tread water and turn downward. If the Fed makes true on its threat to raise interest rates which I think is unlikely than we will be hit with significant deflation.  Should they decide to go to QE4, I believe that will be the trigger for precious metal prices. As precious metals rise so will all MCCs but it will be the pandas that see the highest appreciation in prices. Even with QE4 announced and underway I still think it will take some time for PMs to move upwards.  I believe MCCs will lead vs. PM prices.

I know my opinion is vastly different than many here so I welcome hearing the other view point.

I'm always multi-tasking so much that I think I missed writing up one of the replies I wanted to do for this post of yours, wafdawg. RhodiumPanda has inspired me to respond to your point #2, about the copper/brass/bronze (CBB) coins. There is one VERY important fact I have probably never uttered, because to do so would greatly stiffen the competition for myself in buying rare CBB coins. This fact will make perfect sense when you see how much native Chinese collectors talk about it, but it's not at all obvious from the point of view of a Western buyer. The fact is:

Many of the most advanced elite-level Chinese coin collectors have maintained a persistent habit of focusing on CBB coins.

Some of those collectors focus on CBB exclusively, and most of them have been collecting Chinese CBB since they were first issued 2 or 3 decades ago. Most of them are now at least modestly wealthy thanks to their coin collections and other wise financial decisions. A few of them have personal relationships with important figures in the numismatics of China. One particular fellow I'm thinking of is personal friends with Yi Shizhong, the mint artist that hand engraved the master dies for the goldfish and most of the designs for the palace lanterns. When you see photos of artists hand engraving dies, or photos of extremely rare coins that no one has seen in person before, they may have come from this collector I'm thinking of.

There are a few reasons why these top collectors focus on CBB that I have been able to figure out so far, and all of them are relevant to us as investors:

1. Communism. It is much easier to collect copper/brass/bronze (CBB) coins, and buy and sell them with other collectors, without drawing any unwanted attention from anti-wealth authorities.
2. Affordability. Silver and gold were just too expensive for many people in China to collect during the 1980's, even if they wanted to.
3. Rarity. While the silver and gold was minted by the hundreds and thousands in most cases, the mint artist's themselves seemed to enjoy getting a few CBB coins for himself and his friends. Mintages were almost never recorded, but rarity is almost always high. As a wild guess, I think mintages for many coins had to be in the hundreds at most, and sometimes as few as 10 or something like that.

Badon –

[...]

Remember in late 2008-early 2010, precious metals moved up 50-80% in this period while MCC did squat (they started taking off in late spring, 2010 before exploding (along with silver and gold to a lesser extent the next year).  If this cycle repeats you can get far more MCC later.   It may not rhyme this time however (esp. with these ultra low medals that weren't around back then).   I traded about ½ of my dad's (by then mom's) rare US coins in late 2008 early 2009 for precious metals after metals crashed because the rare US coins didn't drop at all and even the common ones dropped maybe 5% while silver and Palladium crashed 60%.

You missed my point about big money not in MCC yet and thus big gold MCC (even the 2010-2011 massive roundup was probably driven by 1/100 of 1% of US, HK and European investors (and an even lower % of Chinese investors).  It was a cult movement.  No one knew what the hell I was talking about locally; and only a couple of dealers finally understood, but long after I educated them and the run up already was done.  They scoffed earlier.  1/100 of 1% of investors are in MCC, even now.  90% of investors have stocks.   (Even Gold is maybe 10% and silver 5%) This bodes well for MCC in the future and particularly poorly for stocks (which is what is to be expected after a 41 year bull market in stocks).

When the big money gets into MCC – the gold pandas (esp. larger rarer ones) will have to join the run-up to absorb even 1/100 of 1% of the money in overpriced stocks.  There is no way that a 10K mintage 1983 silver panda will go to $100K while a 68 mintage gold kilo panda will stay at $40K with 900 times the metal $ value and 150 times more rarity.   They are too expensive for the common man and that is why they haven’t moved because only the fringe cult people like us (but closer to common man) are in MCC (so far).   Big rare gold probably has as much potential going forward as (now) fully priced big silver and proof pandas.   (Recent super low mintage medals will probably beat both, however in % terms – you have all convinced me of that).  Big gold MCC is too much money in one chunk for me – but I can see it joining the party in the future.

When even the common 3000 mintage big gold pandas sell for a 50% premium (thanks for that alert – I have that coin although not with the box, etc. – I only paid generic bullion price for it); then you know the 68 mintage gold kilos can explode when billionaires get involved in MCC.

Nick Brown was the most effective promoter of big gold, and now that he's gone, big gold has suffered greatly. Actually, think of the Nick Brown era as a fluke that wouldn't be sustainable. Yes, the key big gold coins might have all the advantages that any other key coin has, but it's the common big gold coins that are a dreadful plague. And, if the gold is sufficiently big, even key status will not be enough to keep it stable with rising numismatic values relative to much smaller coins.

Although your analysis of billionaires and percentages seems to make sense on paper, in practice, it doesn't work that way. If there's one thing coin collectors love, it's nostalgia. How many of those billionaires have fond childhood memories of 10 kg gold pandas? Absolutely none of them, I'd bet. On the other hand, how many of them go bonkers whenever they see a nice, high grade brass coin that was possibly minted personally by the artist that hand engraved it himself? The reason those guys go bonkers is because they began collecting them in their younger years, sometimes as young as children or teens, and they could potentially hope to afford them back then too.

Your examples of the how resilient the mature American coin market was to a crash in precious metals is a great example of the "nostalgia effect" in numismatics. How many of those rare USA coins were gold? I'd bet my left pinky toe that the majority of them were copper, copper-nickel, or silver. What makes those rare coin values so stable is the nostalgia. Even if the coins were minted hundreds of years before the collector was born, they may have admired the keys in their youth, or they may feel some connection to its history somehow (often patriotic feelings). When these collectors grow up and start buying big boys toys in the coin market, they don't toss out their copper collection and replace it with more impressive $20 gold coins - instead, they just become much more aggressive with the coins they're already collecting!

Fundamentally, the nostalgia effect is the reason why copper and silver coins so often prove to be better investments than gold coins, even when the gold is much, much rarer. It's very difficult to match the investment performance of a copper and silver collection, as a collector of gold, and that includes both price gains and liquidity. One of the more unusual epiphanies I had about investing in rare coins was that I very often saw a strangely rich concentration of gold coins in government seizure auctions. It's because "new money" drug dealers and other shady-source money was going into coin collections. Basically, it was non-coin collectors trying to figure out what to do with all of their excess cash that they can't put in a bank account or use to pay for a conspicuous asset like a new house or car.

Of course, not everyone who collects gold coins is a drug dealer, but one fact is clear, there is much more money aggressively chasing the key coins that were familiar to the collectors when they were younger and wished they could afford them. A collection of gold coins is a great way to impress your friends with your new wealth, but the buyers of those coins, on average, don't have the diligent drive to spend decades trying to complete the entire set. I believe the same is, and will forever remain, true for the big gold coins.

Only 1 big gold coin has survived from ancient times, and it was discovered by accident only in the last 200 or 300 years. Certainly there were more of them minted, but why is there only 1 that survived? It's because they were the most vulnerable to melting, even when they were owned by kings who were coin collectors. I would definitely buy a big gold coin to complete a small set or series, but for the common pandas, I think even wealthy people will be uninterested in completing the entire set, with common coins included. You don't get to be wealthy by sinking $50 million USD in coins that could literally take decades to sell. No, people with that quantity of cash - if they're smart enough to earn it legally - will prefer something with a larger, dedicated collector base.

Knowing what I know about what the most advanced collectors in China are buying, I'm much more willing to sink $15'000 into a brass panda than I am in a 12 oz gold panda. Low liquidity is one of the biggest weaknesses in coin investing, so as a matter of caution, I have never had difficulty finding another smaller coin that is a better investment compared to whatever big gold rarities are available. There are many big gold coins that are probably a good investment, and maybe someday I will own a few of them, but I'm going to be cautious and conservative about it. Yes, it's possible billionaires might want to build a complete set of 10 kg gold pandas, but one of them wants to sell, I doubt they will find buyers with the eager zeal of China's most dedicated top class coin collectors.

The good news is that the CBB has only just now started to really get the attention of everyone who is in the modern Chinese coin market. It doesn't take $12'000 to get your foot in the door with a CBB investment, like it might with a big gold coin. You can buy a 2014 brass baby panda with a mintage of 200 for peanuts right now ($365 for NGC 69 161814262282). I think those are far more likely to double in value than a $12'000 big gold panda.

Incidentally, the 1 lone big gold ancient coin is thought to probably the most valuable of all ancient coins. Estimates of an auction sale price are almost in the millions of dollars. Right now, it resides in a museum. I seem to remember it was purchased for something like the equivalent of $700, because the owner was having difficulty finding a buyer...he would have gotten more money if he had cut it up into pieces and sold it bit by bit in more affordable quantities. So, you see, these economic factors that oppose big gold are so potent that they have been known to dominate for as long as big gold coins have existed.

Over the short term, big gold might be a great investment if you can separate new-money fools from their cash, but I would not hold them as a long term investor, unless they're keys or from small sets. You're better off with the cheapest bullion you can find, in the smallest portions you can find (1 oz bars or smaller), if what you want is a lot of gold.

Everyone is different, and thus everyone needs their own customized investment strategy. Maybe you can come up with a strategy that can work for you, with the big gold. You really need to know what you're doing though. Nick Brown was a very talented guy, and there's only a few people I know that might have enough savvy to be successful with big gold like he was...but those people have decided to stay away from big gold and focus on big silver instead. Me too (in addition to normal sizes, CBB, etc).
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« Reply #3415 on: 2015 Sep 03, 07:27:53 am »

A lot of real good points being made and I can appreciate them.  Pandamonium - I definitely don't want to come across as attacking in anyway.  We can disagree in a civil manner.  A few things I'd like to address because I'd like to make clear where I stand on some of the points brought up (in no particular order).

1. Food supply - Certainly makes sense for a short term duration.  Beer, liquor, water, and cigarettes are always valuable. 
2. For a crisis you're not going to want silver rounds or silver dimes.  You're going to want physical cash.  Physical cash will get you through some of the crisis' we can anticipate.  A bank holiday for example where ATMs are depleted or if there is a restriction on how much you can withdraw (like Greece).  Gas stations may only accept cash as payment.  This happened in NYC during Hurricane Sandy. And since that hurricane, whenever there is some sort of bad weather in the forecast you notice the supermarkets, the Costco's and BJ's jam packed as people start loading up as if its the end of the world.  People always go to fill up the gas tank in their cars as well.
3. Nickels - I have a hoard of nickels that i started in 2011 as well.  I probably have over $500 in face value of nickels.  At one point a nickel cost the US Mint 11 cents to mint.  If you recall a story there was one man who requested $1M in nickels from a bank.  Every time I receive a nickel as part of change, i store it separately than where I would store pennies, dimes, or quarters.  Also notice how rarely you receive nickels as part of change.  It almost never happens. Base metals are truly tied to the economic well being of the world.  The decline in price is a lead indicator that the global growth engine is broken.  The economies of the world today are just financial engineering projects.  Money printing, corporate stock buy backs, HFT, and Margin.
4. Obama - I hate Obama.  I think he is a terrible president.  I also think the POTUS is merely a pawn of the powers that be so whoever comes next will be cut from the same cloth. The powers that be include, the Rockefeller's, Rothschild's, the bankers, the military industrial complex, the council on foreign affairs, AIPAC, Bildeberg, the Illuminati, the Free Masons, etc. No matter who is president it won't change a thing.  Birds of the same feather flock together. You can never change the system from within the system.  In order for real change to occur the people must mobilize and a revolution would need to form and get to a tipping point where real change can happen.  Otherwise its just par for the course. Donald Trump is a perfect candidate to tap into people's anger but we are just being played.  They choose our candidates for us and they are all bought and paid for. Just like Obama was the perfect candidate when he was elected.  When people speak about he's a closet Muslim, or he is, or he was, or whatever, it really has no bearing on anything mentioned above.  This is merely prejudice towards Muslims sanitized in an acceptable format since so many hate Obama.  Obamacare sucks too.
5. Big gold - agree not a good investment
6. CBB - I'll admit I do not know enough as you Badon on this topic so I'll take your word for it.  However, in my opinion, it appears to me that early adopters can make money on it buy buying and selling early.  It is a good trading vehicle but not something i would necessarily want to store my wealth in.  I view it as bitcoin.
7.  Dollar collapse and derivatives - I'm fully aware that there are quadrillions in derivatives and does the USD deserve to collapse?  Absolutely.  But unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I've visited countries like Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico, etc, where people don't have gold or silver but they hoard USD.  I used to work for a Swiss company, i was on an audit assignment in Buenos Aires for one of our entities.  Our entity couldn't send royalty payments back to the parent company due to the government confiscating USD.  So where were the company's USD?  They were in over 20 safe deposits boxes sealed in Fed Reserve bags of $100k a stack.  I had to spend the whole day counting money. So the truth is that as much as America is in decline, the vast build up accomplished over the past 70 years still makes US #1.  Maybe not a perfect example, but look at the US Olympic basketball team from 1992 - The Dream Team.  They were so much better than anyone else beating teams by 40+ points a game on their way to the gold medal.  As the years went on they were always better than the rest still winning gold medals but the gap was narrowed. Yes eventually they become complacent and lost but now they seem to have corrected that.  In any case, the world has closed the gap on the US but US is still clearly #1.  The dollar is still hoarded in many countries, easily half the world. Remember when the sterling declined, it was a co-world reserve currency with the US before the USD moved forward. The USD can't hyperinflate because when I think of the mechanics of it, it doesn't make sense.  Hyperinflation is a political event.  But certainly inflation will occur.  Since 1913 the USD has lost 97% of its value compared to gold.  That trend will continue.  Deflation fears are always for the short interim but there are never any real mid to long term fears about deflation.
 
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« Reply #3416 on: 2015 Sep 03, 09:12:37 am »

wafdawg we agree for the most part.   You know the score.   However, I do not think the USD can survive so that will send the World sideways.......

The seller pandaworld 11, had the 2006 MS 70 1 oz gold panda sold and mentioned earlier.   He has a 1982 MS 69 Gold Panda 1 oz $8,800      Peter 12,000 mintage      Ebay 301712845808     About a month or two ago there was a 1982 MS Gold Panda set 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz & 1/10 oz for the same price.  Then another set came up for over $10K.   This is ONE MS gold panda for the price of the former set recently listed.......

1992 G1000Y Gold Monkey 12 oz OMP box/coa   $135,000       Mr Ge 99 mintage    Ebay 371427946243   Now this is a big gold i would love to own.   It has a big upside when big money comes into this market.   For you readers Google to Orovillerealty.com    18.98 parcel on Osoyoos Lakefront.   Zoned for apts about 23.4 units per acre.   10 buildable acres (maybe 200 units?).   Steal of a price at $599,000!    (The parcel next to it was for sale at $15 million but it was top lakefront and is now developed)   I own about 1/2 and this would be a great Chinese community w/ Canada about 1 mile away.   Only natural desert that goes about 200 North into Canada so many wealthy live here.   Buy it and i will promise to buy the 12 oz Gold Monkey!   Find a buyer and i will tip you a "happy family" finders fee......

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« Reply #3417 on: 2015 Sep 03, 02:15:15 pm »

pandamonium, those are both excellent examples of small sets or series. In the case of the 1982 panda, the "interesting-ness" comes from being part of a small set of gold pandas from the same year, but with different weights, and with the added benefit of being a key date. In that case, the high price of gold plays little role in the numismatic value of the set.

For the big gold lunars, that is another small set or series play, because lunars are always collectible in maximum 12 coin sets. If anything has the potential to be a good investment as big gold, it's the lunars and other coins that are collectible in small sets. A famous example are the invention and discovery big gold sets. If I remember correctly, they had something like 2 to 5 coins in the big gold set, and every time they are offered they sell for a higher price than before. The last sale price that comes to mind was around $400'000!
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« Reply #3418 on: 2015 Sep 03, 02:22:07 pm »

Silver panda in a broken PCGS holder sold: 151798406127. I have to wonder what the buyer would say if we asked him why he bought this item.

Dirt cheap price for 1 oz silver: 181854977833. Is this a fake coin with a genuine box and COA?

I love these little dragon and phoenix coins, one sold in a Best Offer option: 111740373610. They're far too cheap in my opinion, due to the possibility that they are much rarer than the 50'000 authorized mintage implies. All of the small size dragon & phoenix coins were frequently used in jewelry, including the super-rare 1989 versions. I have seen a photo of a 1989 dragon & phoenix in jewelry. Maybe I can find it.

Olympic gold sold for the full Buy-It-Now asking price: 331645164610. I don't collect the sports theme coins, so I don't know a lot about them, but one thing I do know is that I almost never see gold specimens on ebay. I suspect the Buy-It-Now price may have been dirt cheap. Anyone know?
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
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« Reply #3419 on: 2015 Sep 03, 07:14:27 pm »

The 1982 gold pandas look to be moving up in price.   Lots of gold demand.....
1986 Hong Kong Expo Silver Panda 12 oz medal DAMAGED  -bid-      Peter 1,000 planned mintage     Ebay 151800360995.......it will be interesting what a damaged HK Expo will sell for....sad to see one w/ a big ding....  

1991 10th Anniversary Panda Set carved box/coa   $1,799.95     750 sets?      Ebay 111762370786.....rarely seen set in OMP.......

Amoy Industrial Bank UNC notes 1 cent and 5 cents.    ATSnotes.com says $70 to $80 UNC each.    Ebay has them for about $2 to $152.    Why the huge price difference?   Usually when i see big price swings like this a price increase is on the way but i could be wrong.    ATSnotes.com is usually somewhat accurate w/ price.   Is there a another online note price service?     This UNC note price is all over the board.   Maybe a Exchange is buying them?.....  

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