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Author Topic: MCC LIST #183: 2014, collectors, pullback 9 reasons, food, coin-medal-whatever  (Read 74256 times)
pandamonium, barsenault and 12 Guests are viewing this topic.
badon
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« Reply #3390 on: 2015 Sep 02, 07:52:21 am »

If you ever need to use gold and silver as money, you'll be in such a crappy situation that a sack of potatoes will cost you 2 ounces of gold. Therefore, in my own investment strategy, I decided to put the "metal money" into an inventory of food and other marketable essentials. Imagine this scenario:

1. Fiat currencies suddenly start crashing in a domino effect worldwide.
2. Within weeks, your income is insufficient to pay the bills, so you stop paying them.
3. Within days, "the man" (landlord, tax agent, hungry zombies) come knocking, and you deal with them successfully because you're rich, and he decides he will accept your payment in gold.
4. Within hours, everyone who was not so rich starts to get cold and hungry, and they stop going to work because they have more pressing needs to deal with.
5. Government price controls go into effect, which forces the food to get exported to somewhere without price controls.
6. There are 5 sacks of potatoes at the grocery store...only 5 sacks of potatoes, and regardless of price controls, they're going to the highest bidder.
7. Being rich, you proudly waltz to the front of the line and hand over your gold, and walk out triumphantly with no gold, but lots of potatoes.
8. Everyone thinks you're a genius for being so smart to stockpile gold instead of crappy fiat.
9. You don't look so smart to me because I'm watching this play out from my high-rise penthouse apartment, which I paid for with a sack of potatoes that I bought for $5 before the crash.
10. "The man" comes knocking on my door to collect rent, and he's full of "Sir's", "Mr.'s", and "thank you's" because he's very grateful that at least one tenant is still paying rent with something that has immediate value. The sack of potatoes he got from me for the month will feed his family better than anyone else's, for a few days at least.
11. By the time things get back to normal, I own the Penthouse apartment, the building it is in, and a huge pile of gold, but I'm starting to run low on potatoes...
12. I go to the grocery store and buy another sack of potatoes for $5.

I have absolutely zero stockpile of precious metals. It wouldn't hurt to have maybe a handful of silver dimes or something like that, but I don't think I'm missing out on much by not having it. Sure, if things get really bad, the military or police will probably take all my food, but my entire stockpile of food cost much less than a single coin in my collection, and I have a backup plan if the food is taken. The good thing about stockpiling food instead of precious metals is that it's a LOT cheaper. You can easily afford to have a stockpile at home, another buried in the back yard, and another one hidden in the forest. A few thousand dollars goes a LONG way when you're buying common household goods during a time of plenty.

In 1933 in the USA when the government seized everyone's gold, people's biggest problems weren't a shortage of gold, it was a shortage of food. One of the first things the government and the banks did when people stopped paying their bills, in their infinite wisdom, was to seize all the indebted farms and shut them down. Bam, instant food shortage. Gold and other precious metals seem like a good idea at first glance, but they're not. They're too easy to codify into laws that ensure they're useless to you. Maybe some of those indebted farmers had a stash of gold that they could have used to pay their debts, but guess what?! Gold was officially illegal, and so they still ended up unable to pay!

Good guess about my sale date for the precious metals. I dumped the last of them in 2008. A few days ago I toyed with the idea of buying some silver or gold, but I didn't go through with it. Right now, I think the Chinese numismatics are a much better long term investment, and my gold/silver money goes into food or something else I can use. I might still buy precious metals at some point, but it probably won't be a lot of it, and/or it won't be held for very long.

At one point I had so much of it that I required some serious planning in transport to move it, and I decided after I sold it that I probably won't want to have more than I carry in my pockets. Even then, I'll want it in a form that doesn't look like precious metals. That's why I love palladium. Buy it in wire form, and it looks like aluminum or stainless steel wire. Throw it in the chicken pen, next to the poo shovel, and no one will notice it.

Jews crossing borders to escape the Nazis also used palladium and platinum because it's much easier to hide  than gold or silver. I seem to remember a story about a family that had their palladium melted down and cast into tools for changing a tire in their car. When they crossed the borders, the soldiers took all their money and jewelry, but when they got to their destination, they still had their palladium.

If you want to see what it's like when valuable things become worthless in a crisis, watch the movie Casablanca. Trying to buy safe passage out of Casablanca with a handful of diamonds was no better than trying to do it with a handful of sand. Everybody had diamonds. Nobody had food, shelter, or other basic essentials of life. Whatever everyone else is stockpiling - if it something you can't use yourself like food, and you intend to barter with it - then you something different from what everyone else has. The thought crossed my mind that cigarettes might become a little on the valuable side if supply were disrupted for a few days. I'm not sure if it stores well, and I wouldn't use them myself, but there's an idea to get you thinking about what you can hoard that might be in a severe shortage eventually.

Some people like to store gasoline, but petroleum products don't store well, and gasoline is notorious for going bad in only a few months. On the other hand, ethanol can be used to water down gasoline or sometimes it can even replace gasoline, and it has no limit to its shelf life. Plus, one thing you can always count on when times are bad is a high demand for liquor, haha. So, instead of cigarettes, maybe ethanol would be a valuable thing to store. For safety issues, ethanol can contain 30% water and still work effectively as a fuel. The water makes it difficult to ignite, so it reduces the incidence and severity of accidents, if they happen. Plus you can distill out the water if you really need to.

The big advantage to stockpiling important commodities like food and fuel instead of precious metals is that the inflation that causes rises in precious metals works on food and fuel too! If gold goes up in value, the odds are good that food and fuel went up in value too. So, you're actually not missing out on as much as it might seem at first, if you don't own precious metals when prices go up.

One more thing, keep in mind that it's hard to get full value out of a 5 ounce or larger hunk of gold or platinum or rhodium or whatever, because it's too expensive for most buyers. I have recorded many big gold pandas in the LBC list that sold for BELOW melt value, because someone put them in a cheap auction and nobody watching had enough cash to buy it. If the seller had put it in a bullion category instead of a numismatic category, it might have sold to a bullion dealer for a fair price, but I've seen that go bad on big deals too. I remember one time when I saw something ridiculous like a gigantic 30 ounce brick of palladium that sold for way less than melt value, even though it was in the bullion category. It was just too expensive. I've made a lot of money on deals like that.
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« Reply #3391 on: 2015 Sep 02, 07:55:57 am »

I spoke too soon, big 12 oz gold panda sold for the full Buy-It-Now asking price: 231673719578. Wow!
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
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Coin storage advice.
FreeArc is amazing.
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« Reply #3392 on: 2015 Sep 02, 08:03:50 am »

For the record, all the news is pessimistic about the world economic outlook, especially concerning interest rates, inflation, and other factors that affect precious metals and numismatic coins. In response, I want it recorded that I'm sticking to my guns that I think the hard asset market has more upside this year. I don't believe conditions will be allowed to continue toward deflation, and China, the USA, the EU, and others will be forced to allow some inflation to prevent things-worse-than-inflation from happening.

There are a lot of good reasons to think a black swan event might derail this - like the Chinese stock market crash, or a duplicate crash in the USA or European stock markets - but I think that will merely delay the inevitable. Inflation is coming, and the numismatics have already experienced tremendous growth this summer, and that's a good omen for the last half of 2015.
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If families are a problem for the system, then we must reject the system, not the families.
Founder of the Coin Compendium (forum, blogs, calendar, images, donate, contribute).
LBC makes you rich, with a free ebay gift certificate awarded every month!
The Coin Compendium and the china-mint.info forum, censure, disclosure.
Do not PM questions. Answers should be publicly available.
Backup is not enough. Protect your data with MultiPar.
Writer of LBC Chinese coin investment articles (list).
About me: User:Badon - MediaWiki.org
Badon effect: type 1 to 8, type 9.
I type faster on a TypeMatrix.
Use my work. Give credit.
Coin, medal, whatever!
Coin storage advice.
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pandamonium
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« Reply #3393 on: 2015 Sep 02, 01:57:06 pm »

I agree that food supplies will be a top priority.   Food supplies, protection weapons, MCC, etc buried in large Tupperware containers makes sense to me.    In the US, silver dimes will be a top priority too.    The junk dimes are the smallest form of recognizable currency.   About 11 to 12 dimes per silver troy oz.    I predicted $1,000 oz silver bullion but articles say 10 times that price.   We will find out when currencies crash.    A lot easier to buy food, supplies or gas w/ junk silver dimes then a troy oz of silver.    I like MCC and junk silver dimes the best.     Land in a rural area or forest will be a great choice compared to the cities.    Even a escape RV w/ utilities hook ups will work.  They have generators and a huge back up battery system can be added.   
Have read articles on why the US is run by a muslim president.   Saudi Arabia bought out our government a long time ago and this president was a shoe in without background investigations, etc.   George W.'s election was a total crime too.   Documentaries on the Mexico drug gangs that brag how they have bought out our legal system.    Russian news has articles that say We in the US have lost our country.   Why do they say that?   Add the dots.   Better to have a get away home or RV then stuck in some city.........Have never seen our once great America in such shambles and so much corruption.  We the people allowed it to happen.   Better to be safe then sorry.....
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wafdawg
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« Reply #3394 on: 2015 Sep 02, 02:45:00 pm »

I agree that food supplies will be a top priority.   Food supplies, protection weapons, MCC, etc buried in large Tupperware containers makes sense to me.    In the US, silver dimes will be a top priority too.    The junk dimes are the smallest form of recognizable currency.   About 11 to 12 dimes per silver troy oz.    I predicted $1,000 oz silver bullion but articles say 10 times that price.   We will find out when currencies crash.    A lot easier to buy food, supplies or gas w/ junk silver dimes then a troy oz of silver.    I like MCC and junk silver dimes the best.     Land in a rural area or forest will be a great choice compared to the cities.    Even a escape RV w/ utilities hook ups will work.  They have generators and a huge back up battery system can be added.   
Have read articles on why the US is run by a muslim president.   Saudi Arabia bought out our government a long time ago and this president was a shoe in without background investigations, etc.   George W.'s election was a total crime too.   Documentaries on the Mexico drug gangs that brag how they have bought out our legal system.    Russian news has articles that say We in the US have lost our country.   Why do they say that?   Add the dots.   Better to have a get away home or RV then stuck in some city.........Have never seen our once great America in such shambles and so much corruption.  We the people allowed it to happen.   Better to be safe then sorry.....

You keep beating the drum on this Muslim president non-sense. Muslim countries are getting bombed left and right and no Muslim country is even remotely in a position of world power. Europe is getting flooded with migrants from the Middle East and North Africa. When Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump is president, what are you going to say then?

I don't believe anyone is going to be needing to use silver dimes to buy food.  Store owners don't even know what they are. How recognizable are silver dimes really?  Have you even seen Mark Dice videos on YouTube trying to give away a 10 oz bar and people choose the Hershey's bar instead?  I say that less than 1% of the US population knows about the price of silver and same goes for junk silver.  It's been 41 years since it was currency. Maybe some senior citizens know the value of it but that's it.

I don't really believe in the doomsday prepper scenario one iota.  Food will not disappear if the value of the dollar drops or even plummets.  The one asset that can appreciate in price while keeping prices of everything else relatively stable is gold.  A revaluation of gold will be in order that outpaces the inflation that will be seen in all other assets and commodities.  That's it really.
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pandamonium
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« Reply #3395 on: 2015 Sep 02, 03:45:31 pm »

I disagree.   There is a zero chance the USD can survive derivatives.   Obama is a muslim, there is no disputing that fact.  I do not think we will have 2016 elections.   The TPP has been fasttracked to this muslim president.   Read about the TPP.   It is not a trade agreement.    During the Volker as Fed era when interest rates were sky high, several businesses told me they had signs and would take junk silver dimes for gas, etc.    When immigrants travel to the US they may not speak English but they all know the value of money down to the cent.    So accepting junk dimes is easy.   What else will we use when the USD falls?    I did see the video on the idiots that took the candy bar and not the 10 oz silver.  Why was i not offered that deal?   The preppers are correct, the fools that believe in our government integrity will pay the price.    A wise man is prepared and a fool is punished.   You like so many others, will pay the price.  So be it.   I believe the Yuan will go up higher as the IMF will allow it.   So for us that collect Chinese money, that base is covered.   The majority of people that i have shown the evidence, believe me and have made adjustments.   Only a few unwise still believe the current system will last for their lifetimes.  Good luck.......
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wafdawg
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« Reply #3396 on: 2015 Sep 02, 04:30:44 pm »

I disagree.   There is a zero chance the USD can survive derivatives.   Obama is a muslim, there is no disputing that fact.  I do not think we will have 2016 elections.   The TPP has been fasttracked to this muslim president.   Read about the TPP.   It is not a trade agreement.    During the Volker as Fed era when interest rates were sky high, several businesses told me they had signs and would take junk silver dimes for gas, etc.    When immigrants travel to the US they may not speak English but they all know the value of money down to the cent.    So accepting junk dimes is easy.   What else will we use when the USD falls?    I did see the video on the idiots that took the candy bar and not the 10 oz silver.  Why was i not offered that deal?   The preppers are correct, the fools that believe in our government integrity will pay the price.    A wise man is prepared and a fool is punished.   You like so many others, will pay the price.  So be it.   I believe the Yuan will go up higher as the IMF will allow it.   So for us that collect Chinese money, that base is covered.   The majority of people that i have shown the evidence, believe me and have made adjustments.   Only a few unwise still believe the current system will last for their lifetimes.  Good luck.......

How can anyone take you serious when you say that you don't think we will have elections in 2016? I can stop right here but I will dissect the rest of your bs.

When Volcker was the Fed chairman it was different times. Fiat money was unlinked from gold backing for the first time causing a massive explosion on the price during the decade. Circulating silver was still fresh in people's minds, it's 30 years later.

Cui Bono? Who benefits from Obama being a Muslim president? Not a single Muslim country has benefited. He's attacked as many as Bush did. Suppose he is Muslim, explain how this is even relevant to what is going on.

If the dollar can't survive derivatives then what's next? No more dollar? What will be used as currency? Sure the value will decline. Investment in gold and silver means you are shorting the dollar. I am heavily invested in PMS but I still maintain a semblance of sanity. I don't believe the government has any integrity but I think logically and envision scenarios and what would come next. Your ideas are senseless because you have no rationale as to what comes next. You envision some sort of mad max doomsday with people scrounging for food and huddled by garbage fires.
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LBC3716
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« Reply #3397 on: 2015 Sep 02, 05:47:34 pm »

wafdawg, there are a few contributors on this forum who stray from coin related topics and offer opinions on other topics. Sometimes these comments defy rational explanation and no amount of logic will change their position. Fortunately these same contributors often offer coin related information that is useful so it is easy to ignore subjects that are not relevant. Who knows maybe some of these claims will come to be. By the way did you know that the moon landing was a hoax and was actually staged at Disney studios?
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wafdawg
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« Reply #3398 on: 2015 Sep 02, 06:41:39 pm »

LBC3716 - agreed.

A wise man told me don't argue with fools cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
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pandamonium
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« Reply #3399 on: 2015 Sep 02, 07:16:45 pm »

wafdawg, i was replying to badon's post not to anything you post.    Believe what you want.   Maybe this will help as i read this earlier:  The truth goes thru 3 phases....1)  truth is ridiculed......2)  truth is violently opposed.....3)  truth is accepted as self evident....by Arthur Schopenhauer.....   Some research is called for here on derivatives.  Read about Long Term Capitol Management and the only sane person that wanted to stop derivatives, Brooksley Borne  (spelling?) as she was on PBS too.    Lots of articles on derivatives and the only outcome that can happen.   It is all simple math.......
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